We are Connected but Lack Connection with Trey Taylor

Welcome back to the show. I’m Carol Carpenter, and that is Travis Johnson, my co-host. And we have a special guest today on the show. It’s Trey Taylor, and Trey is a serial entrepreneur with several businesses, including Thread Needle and the Taylor family Insurance services. Trinity Blue Consulting and Ascend Partners.

 He is also the author of CEO Only Does Three Things and is a keynote speaker, challenging audiences to be more intentional, find more focus, and get the right things done. He’s appeared in over 60 podcasts and has been featured in Inc., Entrepreneur, and many others. He’s also a certified sommelier and a private pilot. 

Welcome, Trey. 

Thank you, Carol. It’s great to be with you and great to see you again, Travis. 

Yes, we’re delighted to have you here. I know we have had to reschedule a few times due to crazy happenings, and we’re perfectly OK with being put on the shelf when important stuff really happens. These are fun conversations, but by “not showstoppers,” I mean they take priority. I’d be delighted to reschedule with you so that you can handle it for that life stuff.

And I just wanted to say right. I can’t think of anything right now. Anything else? Is “serial entrepreneur” or “serial killer” like breakfast cereal? And you said it, and I was like, He’s talking like Cheerios. As if we’ll cut on for. 

I should make my own cereal. That would be a great company. Then you could really call yourself a serial entrepreneur. I really should do it. That would be fantastic. 

You know, Ashley, that would be. a good type. It’s a swag thing to have them. They are displayed in small boxes with a picture of Your face on it. 

That’s true. Several years ago, I made a fake book cover and gave it to my wife for Valentine’s Day; it was called 50 Shades of Trey. 

Oh, that is phenomenal. 

I’m proud of you. 

It was a short and disappointing read, unfortunately. 

I have. I did that. When I was overseas in the Middle East company that would. Print your face on socks or whatever, right? like a photograph of my face, I don’t know, there is a large pattern with phases, with hearts in between. 

Yeah, I.  

So, does my wife have her Valentine’s Day that year, socks with my face on them, which I thought was just hilarious. And so did she.

Yeah, yeah.  

I will take your word for it. 

After that, she hit the credit card for something she really wanted later. 

And well, one of the things that my wife does is do fun socks every Friday, and she has a different style. pair of socks. And he became a thing. So, she had 400 different pairs of socks, for example. And she would never, ever repeat them. 

Oh, so that’s her thing? 

Cool. Yeah, so it was a big deal. 

What’s that?

But no socks with my face on them.  

Carol and I thought you were being super insensitive, but you weren’t. 

I know I thought Yes, yes. 

Very heartfelt.

Yes, but I understand how you feel. Would come to that conclusion.

Well, I thought you were going to poke fun at her. That’s why I was like, “Oh, God, please don’t poke fun at her.” And then you actually said something very endearing. And so. I was like, “Uhhh.” 

I do like to pick up my wife. on a regular basis. 

It’s a very useful skill to have. Give a good gift. I want to be good at that, and I think of myself as being good at that. I don’t give gift cards. This drives my kids up the wall. That’s all they want, right? And if I don’t do it, I’m not going to do it. Unless I’m completely out of ideas. So, we give them a gift card. 

But it shows that you’re not connected with whomever you’re purchasing that gift for. Because I think if you are present and you listen to them, you will get clues as to something that they want. 

I think so too. 

So, I always like and then for their next gift, it is whatever. They kind of mentioned that they wanted it, and they don’t even think you’re listening, but they are. I believe there is something very special about giving them a gift when they don’t believe you heard them to ensure they understand you did hear them and see them. 

I agree completely. Do you guys know John Roulin and his company, Giftology? So, the worst gifting is in corporate gifting, right? It’s always terrible. It’s always something like “putting green for the executive office” or something along those lines. Stupid mug with a trick, or some junk that no one you know enjoys after the first 3 seconds. Of opening it. And John went on like Jerry Maguire tear and said “We’re done with all of that, and we’re going to be hyper-focused on real gifting. You don’t ever give someone something with your logo or brand on it. because that’s not a gift. That’s an unpaid advertisement, and you listen to what they love and you don’t send them gifts on holidays. You know, you give gifts because you want somebody to enjoy what you’re giving them”. 

The book itself is very good. He has a course now as well, and he’s just blown completely up like Gary Vee. Does gifting through John happen as all of the MLB teams do? And all of this kind of stuff is really fabulous? A good friend of mine. So, the book is definitely worth a read, yeah.

And it’s known as giftology? 

Giftology. And it’s this whole, packaged thought of, “How should we be gifting?” and “What are we trying to say to people?” 

We’ve really been so disconnected now that we can’t do that anymore.  It saddens me. 

Well, I think so. I think so. And I think it’s, you know, this obsession that we have with efficiency over authenticity. And John simply rejects it. Look you, can be efficient in many areas of your life, but extending a gift from one person to another shouldn’t be. It should, by definition, be personal and from the heart, and it should be… 

He has this artisan who will take a large mug, like a beer Stein-style mug, and I’m not sure if he burns… I think he carves it like a wooden carving. The history of your life goes into this mug. And the point is that this is something that no one else on Earth has. Have you ever had your life immortalized on a coffee mug? 

And those are the kinds of things that he does. He did that. You know who is Cameron Herold that you know? His podcast is like this CEO whisperer’s second in command. He’s like the guru. He just published a book a couple of weeks ago about being a CEO. And he was a mentor of John’s, which he mentioned to John. He adored the Brooks brothers, So John said, “Well, why don’t you meet me at this hotel for drinks?” You know, in a couple of weeks, John will go to Brooks Brothers and buy out a medium in everything they had was put up in the hotel room, including merchandise, and Cameron was sent up to the room with cameras and the like. Oh my God, this is so nice. I grabbed his shirt, and John said no. The entire room is for me to pay you back for what you’ve done for me, and it’s a touching story.

I love that.

Yes, it is. So, there’s like, I don’t know what the number was, but $50,000 or something you know?

It doesn’t matter. 

I mean it. It’s the fact that there was an effort. And he listened. And when people ask me, I think there’s like this basic thing for them. All of us are being seen, as well as accepted and approved. Right. And so, when somebody feels they’ve been seen, it’s unlike any other feeling you have in the world. You are the world changed and completely altered your life. 

Carol, it’s so funny that you’re mentioning that because this morning I woke up to a text from a really close friend of mine who knows I’m going through a personal situation with the death and the family right now, and that sort of thing. And for the time being, I’m the one shouldering the responsibilities for the family, my friend said, but before I say anything else, I want you to know that I see you. 

And that was one of the reasons I screenshotted that text because where I am emotionally right now, it means a lot to me that someone sees the effort I’m putting in and that I’m trying to, you know, I’m drowning and I want to do my best, and for somebody to say, “I see you trying,” that means a lot to me. It just really means something, and I immediately took a mental note. I don’t say that enough. I don’t say it enough to young men, is what came to mind immediately, and I am fixing that, man. 

Yeah, I think, as a mentor, it’s important to tell the people that you’re mentoring that you see them. Here and really hear what they’re saying. You know, confirm it. What are they saying? And then tell them. I see you, just so you know, let’s figure out a way for you to project into the world. You know that. 

It really is. Are you the executor of the state train? 

I am. So just for your audience, we lost some of the senior members. We’re the head of the clan in my family. 90 years old. My grandfather did not complete the 9th grade and built several very successful businesses over the years, and at the end of his days, he decided that he wanted those businesses to go on into the future. And so, he left them in my care for us to incorporate into the family office. 

Creating a legacy 

Yeah, it’s quite the thing. It’s not a burden, but it comes with a lot of responsibility and honor, and I saw my father serve as executor of his parent’s estate at two different times a few years apart. And he had; he’s the youngest of seven. So, he has three brothers and three sisters. 

He did these 1,000 miles away from me, up in Minnesota. I’m in Oklahoma City right now, and every day I end up talking to him. He’s just so frustrated with all the squabbling, and everyone has an opinion on who’s done it. What and why? And at the conclusion of my grandfather’s life. The last to die was life. One of his sisters was living there full-time and taking care of him at home. Basically, they dropped their entire life to make sure to take care of them, which is amazing. She was able to do that, and it just made sense that she got to, you know, keep the house and stay in the house, regardless of how much effort was put into that taking care of grandfather as if nothing had happened, all this bickering, all the thoughts on who gets what, when, and why, and are you going to ruin the family over a China set?

Isn’t it ridiculous? 

Sometimes that’s the hill they’re going to die on. 

Right. And I think even as we go through those things, we know how ridiculous they are, and it isn’t about the stuff; it is about the emotional connection to the stuff or the emotional connection that wasn’t satisfied by other people’s actions. And this is the last leverage point, or whatever that happens to be. 

So, for us, we’ve said, hey, here’s the stuff. Then get it. If it’s still here after this date, it’s going to be sold or distributed or whatever, but if there’s something that’s really important, you should come and get it. There will be no debates and no beef. If there’s any dispute, then the family as a whole will settle that dispute. And if it can’t, then I will. And I believe that being tough upfront about that so that everybody knows that their stuff is protected has been OK for us, but I sent a text this morning and said, “Listen, families reach a crossroads where either they stay, or they go.” fall out over junk. We are at that crossroads. 

So, before you make a decision, make a statement, or take action, consider this: Is family more important than stuff? And whatever you decide is OK. It’s not for me to preach, but that’s where we are as a family today. And so, we’ll see how things go. I’m always ridiculously optimistic. I’m optimistic that things will turn out just fine.

I’d rather be optimistic any day than pessimistic in any way. 

I think so too. Yeah, I think so too, so that’s probably more than 

That’s just one of those. That’s one of those qualities that you find in a person, right? 

Probably more than anybody wanted to know. 

And that’s one of our staple questions here on the show: what makes you tight? One of those sounds like optimism.

I am.  

Always optimistic, I always think that, and so often you get caught up in this belief. But I always think that other people want to do the best they can because I want to do the best I can. I always think that other people want that as well. 

Don’t you think that’s projecting your values and isn’t always true? As people, you know, we want to believe others would. However, that’s projecting our values onto them, and they may not hold the same values as us. 

Very true. But to your point, a minute ago, if I had a choice between being an optimist and a pessimist, I would choose the former. I want to live in a world where I think that people share my values and do the same things that I do. And I’m not trying to sound like There’s a Saint there. I am aware that some people do not say anything to me, hey, maybe you should follow a few of your values better, but yeah. To that.  

If I have the choice of how I’m going to encounter the world, I’m going to Encounter a world full of people that I think are trying to do right.

It’s a great way to look at it. 

Well said.  

I know there are many times when you meet someone who is in a different season of life or at a different stage of development than you. And I’d been having a pretty deep discussion about this for the last 10 days or so. And like my buddy that I was talking to, you kind of called me out.

And he’s like, “What Do you mean you’re aware that’s not for you?”

 I was thinking about you. I was like, with what I’m doing in my life and where I’m headed and what I need to be doing for myself, the thing that’s happening in their world and how they’re behaving and reacting to it, I’m not OK with it. I’ve said my piece. I’m here for them. If they want to come back around, fine, but I am not going to sit there and just, you know, get beat on essentially because they’re going through something is right now. 

You know, I listen to them, and I take it I don’t discount a bad day, right? I listen to someone on their bad day, and they keep going and beating and just going down that path, and, like, hang on, I’m here for you when you get yourself back, you know? And if that doesn’t happen, or if that happens, you know that tomorrow, five years from now, whenever I’m here for you, I’ll be here. But yeah, I’m not going to sit here and talk to you this way for any reason, from any person. 

No, no. And they’ll be sucking you into that level. 

They will. So, we went to a banquet last night where David Pollack was … we’re Georgia Bulldog fans. He was one of the greatest Georgia Bulldog players of all time, and he was addressing this big youth group, and he was telling these kids for the first time that you and I have heard this stuff for years. Right. But these kids are. 12,13 years old. “I never heard this stuff,” he said. You’re the average of the five people. You spend the most. I’m with him, and I watched my son’s face like wrestle with that as he realized, “Holy crap, like this, maybe this one kid that’s always complaining that I’m hanging out with is making me more” than you could see in the whole script. My son should never play poker like that; you could see the whole script go off. States, right? 

And being able to perform addition by subtraction and saying to that person, “I love you, but we need to part ways so we can be better, For each other”

I think it’s really hard when you have to let people go because you don’t necessarily want to, but you also realize you’re not doing them any favors, and you’re not doing yourself any favors.

It was really interesting. 

So, it. I recall having to let go of people who had been in my life for a long time. The only reason I kept them around was that they were in my life for a long period of time. I didn’t know what to do with them. Right, so I kept them. 

And the pain of moving on is worse than the pain of sort of keeping it going. This happened to me when my father passed away in 2005. I was very close to being engaged to someone whom I didn’t love enough to keep in my life. But it’s that slow, sickening inertia. of not having the character to stand up and say there’s nothing wrong with you, but I don’t love you the way you deserve to be loved. And I had to have that conversation eventually when I realized that this was about to happen. 

How old were you? 

31 at that point. 

Yeah, that’s rough, right? 

That would have been my second mistake, right? So instead, I didn’t make that mistake, and if you don’t think the universe listens, man, my wife was delivered with the little Tiffany’s bow on the next year, and we’ve been married. I couldn’t tell you … I don’t know, 14 years or something like that. Whatever it is, I’m 16 years old and so stupidly happy. 

Trey was yours. Was your wife #3?  

She was nothing more than #2. She was almost three.

So, I didn’t get engaged in the second one.

No, no, no. I’m laughing. because I’ve been engaged twice. And I got married a third time. So, I was just trying to Count like it’s #2. Is that #3? You know, we’re trying to figure it out. out, but yeah, I understand. It’s really hard to let people go when you know they’re not right 

Yeah, yeah. And then I think you get rewarded for those character moments. 

Yeah, I did. I am now being rewarded, but my husband, who is now my ex-husband, and I were married for 21 years. We had two children together and wouldn’t change anything in the world. But if I were to say my biggest gift is the gift I have now with my relationship with my boyfriend, so yeah, I hear you. 

You’re up there right now, aren’t you? In Canada, like at his place right there, 

I am in Canada. Yeah, I came up here because, you know, Valentine’s Day, we don’t get to see each other very often. I think the last time we saw each other was over a month ago. We have a long-distance relationship, but it’s not really long-distance because he’s in Victoria. I’m in Washington State. 

We don’t live together. Yeah, it has its challenges from time to time, right? But we’re both extremely busy; I own several businesses and he owns a few. So, when we do get together, you know, we try to spend as much time as we can together. 

And today, because I’m doing podcasting; every Tuesday, He spends time with his father, and this came about after his mom passed away. and she passed away. Last year, he realized he didn’t spend enough time with her. 

So after discussing it with me, I realized there was some guilt involved. I’m not going to let this happen with my dad. So, he spends time with his father every Tuesday, and they have a boat that they’re working on refurbishing together so that they can enjoy it. 

Ah, cool. Pretty cool.  

So, I lost my father at the age of 52. He had COVID, which they didn’t know what it was called back then. There was a complication with SARS. Two viruses. That is on his death Certificate. 

OH wow.  

We had no idea he got on the vent. You know, all this stuff that we’re super familiar with now because of the last 18 months we went through in total isolation, and he was only 52 years old. He was successful in his business, which we inherited and still own today and all of that sort of thing. But at 52, it’s like we woke up and he was there. You know, and we had to sort of deal with that aftermath.

Compared to my grandfather, who was 90 and had a prolonged stay of three solid weeks. And the difference between those two scenarios but my entire life, I’ve heard people say, “Oh, you know, Dad was 84 and I lost him. And I don’t know what to do. You know, I wish I could have one more day”, and my thought was that this is not creditable to me, but my thought the whole time was what were you doing with the time that you had? 

Oh, Amen. 

I didn’t have that with my dad, who was 52, and I didn’t make it. that mistake anymore, like people. know in life. I hate you. I love you. They know. And I don’t go to sleep at night before people know that. I make that a priority because, I, Have now lived. It is so pronounced.

So, Trey, my mother passed away when she was 47. I was 19 and it was like, “If you ever lose somebody when you’re that young and you’re going into adulthood, it changes the way you are as a person, right?” 

Yeah, I can see that. 

Because you sit there and you go, “She’s 40, something years old,” She’s gone. And so, when do we get our ticket punched? We never know. So, how do you want to live your life is up to you at that point, because every day is a freaking gift. Though if you can treat it like that, I think people have missed the fact that every day is a gift. You know, live it accordingly. 

Yeah. Have something that you’re proud of going to accomplish that day, right? Yeah, I agree. and that can be personal. It can be business or an achievement. I think sometimes we artificially say, “Oh, it’s, you know.” It’s personal. It’s by definition better than this. I don’t personally believe that. You know, some days I really do. Do you want to get it? After it, and some days I don’t get as far as I’d like to, I want some hugs and kisses. You know, I think it’s what you can put yourself through. That day, that’s the most important. 

Yeah, we went down a morbid rabbit hole. 

Well, it’s. It’s an important conversation. You know, I’ve been. I’ve been taking this improv class, and we realized that there are only 2 sessions. We had previously visited there. Last night, and it’s been amazing to see the transformation for many of the people who have been in the class, not this week but last week, we’re walking out of the class talking to the instructor, you know, dark alleys walking into her car. And she’s like, “You’re really doing a good job.” I was like, I was like, come on, you’re just you. Do you know how to put me on? She’s all like, no, no. So, you can tell if you’re in it. You act as if you’re there. And when you can be fully present, you know, the rest of the world fades away and you’re there. 

Not a lot of people understand her. Especially not this early in the season. And in the thing. I have been thinking about this concept for a while over the past couple of months. It’s really… I haven’t decided, or I haven’t been told, whether it’s like actually being present or just being dissociated from everything else, and I don’t know if there’s a difference. I don’t know exactly where the line is but being able to be there and nothing else in the world except that, seeing what you’re doing at that moment, as if nothing else exists in my world, and I’ve been able to grab a hold of that and deliver, you know, a couple of laughs. Like, “Oh my goodness, if.” You say wild and crazy things in improv because That’s kind of the goal—to push the boundary and then just go with it and see what happens there. It is the “yes, and” principle. And I think that a lot more people would have a better time if they took something like that. Yes, as well as principles in their daily lives.

This is great. 

So, I’ve always lived with this concept of a third eye, like the eye that’s watching me, like I’m seeing myself through that eye, and I think. It’s a big part of why I’ve been successful and why I can be in certain rooms and behave in certain ways. 

The problem is I can’t turn that off, so when I go to the daddy-daughter dance, and my daughter wants to dance. It’s a real effort. for me not to notice my line dancing. Self is accompanying her and has that superimposed on my judgment of myself. Right. So, I’m very impressed that you can get on an improv stage and sort of turn that off and be so committed to it. It makes me envious. 

I appreciate that the overall goal is to ensure that I am not estranged from my family. I noticed, from my personal journey, that in order to cope with a lot of the terrible things that have happened to me, I’ve had to dissociate and kind of look at myself from that vantage point. 

I’m not there in it, I experienced terrible things, and although it did serve me at one point in time, my fear is that I’m going to use it to be distant from the people that are closest to me. And that sounds like something extremely difficult. So being able to find a couple of moments throughout the week where I know I’m definitely there and in it and nothing else exists, that’s a big deal. I’m trying to get more of that myself. So, I’m I. with you right now. 

I’m really good. 

I did want to expand on what we discussed previously, months ago, when you mentioned parenting difficulties. And I know Carol and I have ended up getting onto this topic multiple times. I’ve got a grown daughter out of the house, and I still have one that’s in high school. He’s taking up tennis and hoping to make something of it. He’s trying to win a little prize right now. He’s going through something like fundraising, trying to get something, and it’s interesting to see something that is a little bit outside of what is normally done, but he’s really trying to grab something. Hold of that new things and actually do something with them. It’s interesting to see. 

I have a 13- and 11-year-old, as well as a four-month-old, so I’m either. 

Oh, my goodness! Hold up. Hold up the 4-month-old. 

Yeah, I can either be trusted to make parenting decisions or I can’t be trusted at all. 

The viewers and listeners have to determine that for themselves, right? 

Disclaimer should make a wise decision at this point. 

My grandfather, right when we told him that we were “I’m pregnant and having this last baby,” he said. Boy, don’t you know what causes that? 

Yes, but we really enjoyed it. 

And, you know, before I became a parent. You know that’s. When you’re the biggest expert on being a parent, not a parent, I thought. You know these kids. Come into the world they’re blank slates. You just give them what they need to know in life. And then. Not at all. Unless you screw them, they are already who they will be. 

For them, you know, it is our God-given right to Screw that up. 

But when I realized that and really got sort of Zen with that, because I’m a super controller, I got Zen with that and said, “Hey, it is my job to manufacture this kid who becomes an adult.” My job is to keep them out. Don’t let go of the ditches. They eat poisoned food. Too much of it, you. know and simply encourage. 

not enough to kill them. 

Encourage them to be who they’re going to be, and I have to say those kids are not whom I would have chosen for them to be, but it is still beautiful. I mean, I admire both of my older kids for sure. The choices that they make and the ways that they respond to situations that I never had and don’t have, you know, watching that 

But they weren’t supposed to be our duplicates if anything. Right this.  

So, my son looks just like me, and my daughter looks just like my wife, and I cringe when people say, “Oh, that’s your mini-me.” I and my wife have adopted the habit now of saying, “Actually, we don’t believe in that. We believe that my son is his own man”, and he’s going, and people are like, “OK, nerd; of course, I knew that. I’m just saying he is. He looks like you”, but I don’t want them to take that identity into themselves. And so it goes. 

Because they.  

They hear it, and they become it. 

Yes, 100%.  

Yes, and that’s a lot of pressure to put on yourself. On somebody’s. and that’s not what we want to do. So my great mentor was a guy named Ron Willingham. Ron wrote 12 or 13 New York Times bestsellers. He and I co-authored a book right before his death called Authenticity. which was about how to be authentic in a sales environment, which is often a troublesome thing to do. 

Ron had a basic philosophy that went like this: I’m created in three dimensions: an intellectual dimension, an emotional dimension, and an identity-based dimension. I think, I feel, I am. And when I really sunk my teeth into what his philosophy was, I said I was going to adopt it. I’m going to live that in my life, and one of the things that we do in the management of people and in the parenting of our children is managed at the “I am” level, correct?

How to increase your view of who you are so that you can go and do way more things than you would probably think you were capable of intellectually I can teach you a few things along the way, right? As somebody who works for me, I can teach. Oh, do this code or do this thing or something of that nature, but not a lot. 

Emotionally, I can’t coach you to feel any way that you’re not predisposed to feel, and I can’t change the way that you manage your emotions. But if I parent or manage you, at the level that you hold it as an identity, that’s a life-changing thing that will affect you for years to come. 

So, we’re talking about gifting earlier. I don’t give gift cards. I give kids swimming lessons because they’re swimmers then for the rest of their lives, right? Or I give them things that can transform them in that way to be more of the person that they were already going to be. and that’s been one of the great secrets. If you want to call it a secret of our management and the way that We parent our kids. 

Yeah, it’s all-encompassing when it comes from a very spiritual level. Because it encompasses all of those things, and I think what people don’t know is that they separate spirituality, but really, spirituality is the wholeness of it all. 

That is exactly correct. And so, what Ron would say is that true integrity is integrity is an English word derived from the Latin word for whole, and it’s the only English noun I can find where there is no adjective. Right. You can’t be both integrated and so. You can’t have it. a little bit of integrity. It doesn’t work that way. And his point was that people who live with integrity—who think, feel, and believe in accordance with one another—have integrity. 

100% I think the word “integrity” is so overused. I don’t think people really, truly understand it, and they misuse it all the time, which drives me insane; like absolutely insane, because I know a lot of the people who use that word do not walk with integrity. 

And it upsets me that they abuse that word, 

yeah. They use it as a weapon to beat people. Other people 

to make an impression, but that impression is a false impression, and it drives me insane because of that. 

I’ve only got one. Have you ever fired someone for a lack of integrity? I don’t fire them for lack of production. 

as you should. 

I don’t fire people for putting in too little effort. I fire them for a lack of integrity, which is usually the case. 

all of it.

They told a lie, right? Yeah, they just told a lie when there was no lie called for. 

But if that’s their nature. You can’t change their nature. And that is significant. You know, my boyfriend has a thing that, you know, we talk about all the time and we hold people accountable for. Right when you meet somebody, you don’t know how they’re going to be or how you’re going to be able to interact. With them, you test them.

And by testing them, I don’t mean being sly. You try to determine what type of person they are, and he always says #1, you test them for accountability. Are they going to be held accountable for what they say, or are they just blowing smoke up your ***? Right. 

#2 is competency. If I can discuss competency today, it boils down to whether they are competent.at what they do. Can they actually do what they say? They can’t. Well, you know what? That’s only two out of three. The third one is do they walk with integrity? 

Integrity. Yeah.  

And those three things are how you test people. They cannot be just one or two; they must be all three, to be able to have that relationship with you. 

So, when we interview people, we put them through a four-stage interview. The first one is cultural. You right. So I’m going to sit down with you, just because you don’t. What the culture of my business is So I’m going to tell you what it is. 

I don’t want to hear much from you. I don’t want to hear you. Oh, yes, I love that. Or I want this or that, and so on, for about 85% of the first interview. I tell them, I tell them in advance, and then I send them away with four questions to answer for themselves. The answer for me is, you know, like when we go to a job interview, we’re supposed to get the job. I know what’s going to happen. Don’t answer it for me, Answer it for yourself. So that’s the first thing that we talk about before we talk about the job. 

The next interview is for the job. It’s the competency portion of it. So, we talk about, “Look, this is the job, this is what it requires, and that sort of thing.” In the third interview, we talk comp. So, the people that are showing up on the first day say, “How much does this pay?” I’m ready to get started. They don’t fit in with my organization.

What are the four questions?

So, the four questions, and I’ve coached this in various businesses, but I want to do it for us. I had this idea once about all the people who no longer work here. Why don’t they work here? Because again, I don’t fire people very often, but people will quit and leave an organization; they all leave for cultural reasons. There’s this old chestnut about people not leaving their jobs. Do they leave their bosses? No, they. Don’t they leave a culture of expectation? Right. So if you’re expected to do something in a culture and you don’t like it, whether it’s excellent or crappy, that’s why you leave. Sometimes you take yourself out of that situation consciously, sometimes subconsciously. 

So, the four questions that we talk about, which would be different with each organization, right, are: I literally sit down and I tell you the rule. I tell you the story that proves the rule, and then I ask you the question, so I’ll give you those really quickly. 

We are a family-based organization, right? My name is on the door. My kids’ name is on the door. So, we’re not going to fool around. In this organization, we do stupid things that would embarrass my kid at school. If somebody heard his last name, right? So that’s one of the things. 

It also means that we treat each other like family. And if I can say this without getting choked up too much, we didn’t cook a meal for three weeks. My team showed up every single day with a cooked meal or Chick-fil-A being delivered to you or something for three solid weeks. We take care of each other that way. 

Oh, and then I tell a story. It’s this lovely, wonderful story. One of our team members had a family. His mother was a member who died. And she had this horrible disease called “Pig’s Disease.” The pig’s disease is very akin to Alzheimer’s, it’s like, you know, your intelligence. You develop in the shape of a bell curve. You come up, and then you sort of don’t lose intelligence over time. With picks disease, you’re a total bell curve. So, you grow up until you’re whatever it is, and then? You go down the cognitive ability ladder until you die, sucking your thumb, and you’re a teenager again, and all of that.

I was out of town working when I heard. that his mother had passed away. And so, I told the office manager. Like, OK, you know, cancel all of my appointments. I’m headed to Orlando. to be with the family and, you know, put something out on the Internet and let people know that his mother passed. We’re going to send flowers, and she did all of that. The funeral is going to be on this day. 

So, I go down and, you know, I’m with the family the entire time we go to lunch, and they’re a Catholic family, and they have this gorgeous Catholic cathedral there in Orlando, and the priest gets up and, you know, he invites my colleague to stand up and deliver the eulogy. And he stands up and looks over the audience, and he gets choked up. I can’t do it. So he steps off to the side, and the priest follows. I’m not Catholic, but the priest does priestly things for a minute. He catches his breath, he stands up, and he delivers his eulogy, which I can’t talk about without choking up, but basically says most men only know their parents as adults. That I was able to know my mom as a child is so touching. And then he sits down next to me and says, “I am so embarrassed”, and I said, “Why are you embarrassed?” And he said, “Look!” And he hooks his thumb and finger over his shoulder. And before I can turn, I know where I’m going. And my entire company was sitting there in the four-and-a-half-hour drive to the church. They had hired a temp… nobody asked my permission to do any of this, and they were all sitting there because we don’t believe that you go through things alone. and they weren’t going to have that. 

Now, as an interviewee, I have a question for you: You have been in the church. It’s OK if you wouldn’t have been. It’s not necessarily a sane proposition that you drop everything and go to some guy’s mom’s funeral that you’ve never met before. But if you wouldn’t have been in the church, you might not be a good cultural fit for us. And so, don’t tell me if you would have been in the church, go back, and while you’re talking to yourself, do you want to continue interviewing with us? Answer that for yourself. So we do that four times. We do that at four different points in the cultural interview. 

You know, Trey, it’s really interesting because I feel like the kids these days, the different generations, much younger, they’re not as connected, even though they’re so connected on social media, and they’re so far removed, connection-wise emotionally, from other people and the way I grew up, because of our culture, I’m Taiwanese, right? Everything was about duty and honor to the family. and nothing was. You never did anything without considering are you going to embarrass the family at all. 

The family was the reason you did things; that was the deciding factor for everything. So, if you did anything to embarrass the family, my dear God. I don’t understand, in this day and age, even with my kids, you know, my oldest just turned 27 on the 12th. and you know it’s interesting to me. They don’t feel that connection. They don’t feel like their family name means anything, and what they do and how they represent it don’t mean anything either. You know, they feel so removed from their family name and were. 

For us, man, if you screwed up and you passed off the leaf, Family is not a good thing, you know, like when my family would be on you, and that was not OK. And if you embarrass yourself. OH, my God, would they give? They give you a guilt trip of a lifetime on why it wasn’t appropriate to do what you did.

That’s interesting. So, we have a belief in the Taylor family that it means something to be a Taylor, and we share that with the kids. We show them tailors that act in that way. That is something we would like to see. Seen and we show them the ones that don’t as well. So, I’d like to think we’re doing that.

But back to your point about the millennials and the younger folks that are more connected. We have millennials in that church. Did they follow other people there? They may have. I don’t know that I can sort of cut them off and say they don’t know what they’re doing, or they don’t know how to be connected. 

No, but it’s like the connection is different. 

Their connections are very different, though. You’re right. 

Yeah, it’s like there isn’t that deeper connection anymore. Despite their proximity, they are aware of it. This is what I’m getting at. Even though you know we are so connected these days in so many ways, And I mean that by “in social media,” on different platforms, whatever you want to call it. We are still very disconnected, and I believe that is the source of the problem. I feel like there’s a loss of hope for several because they feel like, Oh my God, in this world of we literally can talk to anybody, anywhere, anytime, right? I feel so alone. 

That is correct, and my very good friend, who is a therapist and does amazing work with super high performers, has noticed that there are boomers in her practice, for lack of a better term. But just looking at the boomer generation, there were a lot of very good things about it deep, long-term relationships. Right. But they only got the news. They didn’t have a cell phones. They only got their news from one source, right? Two places: the newspaper and Walter Cronkite. And that was it, right? That was basically it. the whole gamut, and so their experience of the outside world was very limited. 

So, they had a rich inner world within the world’s circle, Gen You are aware that my generation was raised to be self-sufficient. We weren’t, but other people in our generation were latchkey kids. Fewer deep relationships, but a much more broadcast-based generation than millennials and below may have one to two very deep, committed relationships over a long period of time, but thousands of very thin relationships just an inch deep.

And a lot of trauma for that generation comes when one of those people dies or moves on in their life, or any of that sort of thing because you don’t have somebody to fall back on. If you only have one or so far, I’ve had two or three of those. It’s a fascinating phenomenon, to say the least. We are noticing this, especially with my 11-year-old, who’s the social butterfly type. They don’t do anything alone. They’re on FaceTime 20; they do homework on FaceTime; they do everything. 

But we need space as individuals in order to grow. We also need to nurture that part of ourselves. And I believe that when you’re 

So, I agree. 

Too connected.  

The interesting thing is that I think there can be too much connection, but the interesting thing to me is if it doesn’t happen in that way, it doesn’t happen. If your friends don’t participate in it, it doesn’t happen. So that’s really interesting and Again, I have no moral judgment one way or another. On this, I’m just watching it for my kids and how it’s different for them because it’s going to be that way. Yeah, they’re not going to put that cell phone down. They’re not going to wake up, for example.

Oh, God. No, no, no. 

At the age of 18 and say, “Oh, I don’t need.” the cell phone anymore. I’m going to have relationships like my grandparents had. It’s not going to happen, so I think we’re sort of swimming upstream if we want to make that happen. But I just want them to understand that your values transcend 100% of the technology that you use to have relationships. 

I have a Discover Card and my card, and my card is a cassette tape. So every time I Take it out to use it. The people that are old enough to know what that is. It’s like. Oh, my God, that’s hysterical. The other people are like “What is that?” I can see how old you are.

Yeah, yeah, yourself. 

Use that test for your dating life. like if they don’t know what it is. is similar to you. 

I don’t say anything; I just laugh. I’m like, “Oh, yeah, back in the day.” You know, the ones I do remember, I love reminiscing with them. I’m like, do you remember when you had to stick that pencil in and you had to roll it up because that thing would just shred inside your CD player or your cassette player inside your car, and you pull it out.  It’s gone, and all that remains is being. You know, this big long one. Tape that you’d be like other freaky foods. 

My daughter, my 11-year-old son, and I were at Urban Outfitters because that’s where she wants to shop. She’s not allowed to wear anything, and she saw an audio tape. You are aware, as we are, that there is a tape. And she said, “What is this?” And I said, “Well, that’s what mommies and daddies used to listen to music on it”; she holds it up to her head and declares that it is broken. 

That’s the divorce right there, they don’t even know what the thing is. And the other day, while cleaning out my grandfather’s house, we found a bunch of VHS tapes. And so, I My son and I both use the terms cassette tape and VHS interchangeably. Which of these people is frustrated and perplexed? Which one are you referring to, exactly? Well, they’re all the same thing. And it frustrated him to no end, you know. 

So, amusing, and you know what do they just need to be… all you have to do is show them. They can see it. You know, it’s so funny because my kids would have no idea. I think. I think they came around when it was just all seedy, like, you know. 

Yeah, yeah, all DVDs and CDs. 

So, none of that… And you talk about cassette tapes and VHS. They’re kind. 

Of, like, ah, I don’t even know. Right, right.  

I mean, how far back are we going to go with 8 tracks and laser discs? 

Yeah, and beta Max and all that stuff, yeah.

I know.  

Beta Max, you’re right. Holy crap. What the heck? 

Or, you know, getting penalized for not rewinding a movie. 

Oh yeah, be kind. Rewind.  

Remember that it was going to cost you more to return this because you didn’t rewind it.

My father owned a chain of video stores known as Hollywood Movies, which he bought in a roll-up that became Hollywood Video.  

And so, the logo for Hollywood videos was my dad’s logo, and he had … He’ll kill me if he ever knows that I said this. 

No way. Yeah, no. 

But he had a separate drawer. That your late fees and rewind fees went into that drawer and were not reported to people who needed to know, as if it were pocket money. For the family, and it was enough that we lived on basically what came in late fee and the rewind drawer, yeah

Oh my God.  

So, you’re curious, like, why would people be so cheap and charge me for that? Yeah, that’s why. Because the baby desires a new pair of shoes 

Shoes. That’s why.  

That is, in fact, hilarious. I love. talking about some of the stuff. 

I want to know. Trey, what is something about you that most people just don’t know? 

I know every rule of hereditary titles in the United Kingdom.

Wait, what?  

I bought it myself. Yeah, it’s the most useless knowledge that you could possibly have. I’ve always had a sort of obsession with that. And I bought myself a gift this year as a treat for myself. I can see them right here in my office. A set of volumes, which is the complete peerage. It’s everything about it, and I literally thought when I was in college, I could be a peerage lawyer. Is that useless or what?

It’s OK. Hey, I took four years of Latin. It’s absolutely useless.

Yeah, no.  

Dead language.  

No, no Latins. I took Latin. I love it. When you travel around, I’m saying I can always find a priest.

Yeah, I didn’t say I didn’t love it. I loved myself. It helps because it helped me when I was doing pre-med, and it also helps me when I’m learning other languages because, you know, romance language.

It’s the bedrock, yeah. Travis, you’ll notice that I didn’t mention That was me. Pilot as a result of this.

You were a pilot. Yeah. 

But within one minute of meeting a pilot, that person makes sure that you know that. He’s yeah. So no one knows I’m a pilot or some such thing. 

Well, I’m kind of interested in the whole sommelier thing. How did you come to be?

That’s why I moved home to my family’s hometown when my father died, I had an entire other life, like I was getting really good at my career choices and I had this girl I didn’t love enough to make it OK, I mean, I was building that another life, and then it was gone

And I was home in a rural part of Georgia that we call home today, and there was nothing for me to do here because I had moved from Atlanta too, you know, three hours south of a town. 30,000 people. There was nothing for me to do. 

A new restaurant opened, with the chef coming from Napa. He had roots here, and he opened a beautiful restaurant, that I would go to every day. I knew a little bit about wine, but I bought a copy of the wine Bible, and I sat at that bar every single day. And I read the page on Chardonnay, and we drank Chardonnay; I read the page on Gruner Veltliner, and we drank that; and so I educated myself in those things, and then I went to San Francisco for a week, took a course, and then passed the exam. that level 2 exam. So, there are five levels. of the exam, and I’m a level 2 1/2 because I’ve taken some of the other classes, but you can call yourself the sommelier if that matters to people. 

I might have. to take you around just so that we can pick the right wines.

It’s so much fun. I love going 

I have a little line with friends, and I have a lot of friends that will say, “Oh, there are trees in town.” Can you meet us at Total Wine and help us, you know, stock the cabinet and that sort of thing? And then we keep referring back to “gifting,” which I do a lot of.

Right. 

That, and it’s mostly like I know enough about what you like to know that you’re going to want to try this, but you’ll never get the chance.

Oh, that’s very sweet.

I’ve had it before. Yeah, so that’s a fun way.

That’s very thoughtful.

And then the only things that I give to our auctions or wine tastings. So, I always say, whatever you said in the auction, that’s what I’m going to spend my money on. The line I’ve now set a cap on that because we lost out hugely on that deal one time, but people who are into wine should not bid on that. 

But yeah, we really have a fun time. And we’ll meet up and have, you know, 10 or 12 couples, and we’ll go through, like, here are all the noble grapes. And let’s have three different tastings of Chardonnay. So you see the different profiles. By the end of the night, Uber is simply picking up people. 

It’s a good thing they’re not driving. So where are you driving in Georgia? 

So, my hometown is Valdosta, Georgia. It’s halfway between Orlando and Atlanta. It’s right on the border of Georgia. Georgia and Florida 

My brother lives in Georgia. Now that’s why I asked. I’m going. I will be visiting him, so I may just shoot you an email and say, “Hey, let’s meet.” 

Up. Yeah, let’s have wine.

I would love that. 

Yeah, we should do that. 

And Travis, I’ve been to Oklahoma City once, and it’s

I mean.  

I’m a terrible sister. I don’t know what city he lives in. 

OK, if I don’t go there. 

Yeah, I was stationed in the Navy here for the better part of 20 years, and I retired last year, and as of now, I haven’t found a part of the country or any other part of the world calling me yet. So, my son is in high school, and we don’t plan to move until that is all, is said and done, Although I can understand why you wouldn’t pick up, the city to come back to you. It was super cheap. Housing is available, and people are relatively nice. And why the heck not?

Yeah, it seems to be a good place for other people, but it just didn’t get into my blood. 

Yeah, I can’t blame you again. I’m originally from Minnesota. 

Is that excessively insulting? It might be insulting. 

It was backhanded. 

People make their own decisions, regardless of whether they grew up in northern Minnesota like me. And I grew up with them. You know, there are 1,000 lakes in my county, and I didn’t realize what a rare thing that was until I left. 

And I’m like, “I’m going to the lake this weekend.” like what it was like. In Oklahoma, there are no lakes like that; all of the lakes, I believe, are natural, but two are man-made. Like they had to be crafted.

And then there’s the clay, and the clay here turns all the lakes red And I’m from the most crystal-clear blue lakes. And so like. Yes, we’re all going to Lake Thunderbird and all that I get down there. I’m like, no way. Going in that way, I’m not sure what, what you. Guys are doing it, but I can’t go in there and say, “Oh, It’s not too bad”; it is. It is that bad? I’m not OK with it, and so lake time is. Drastically decreased over the years that I’ve been here because I’m like, “I’m not driving 3 hours to a good lake when I’m back home, there are 5 minutes in any direction back.” 

That is true. The lakes and Minnesota are beautiful there, crystal clear and clean. And yeah, Georgia has no man-made and no natural lakes at all. 

That’s the closest to Canada. 

Yeah, yeah, it’s true. 

Right. All the beautiful nature is like… I come to Victoria, and I love to hike because it’s so absolutely gorgeous.” Now it’s pretty close to Washington. We’re called the Evergreen State for a reason. Yes, it rains a lot, but that also means we have beautiful weather. Nature; we get to sit there and immerse ourselves in it. So I love that we’re actually this close together, but there is a different element, in my opinion, up here that I don’t get to see when I’m in Washington. 

They’ve left a lot of it untouched, so when we get to go on these hikes and you see the falls and everything, It’s unlike anything I’ve ever experienced. It’s just so… beautiful.  You just can’t articulate.

So beautiful. I went to the San Juan Islands one time, and I cannot believe that that place exists and everybody doesn’t know about it. It is so maybe I shouldn’t say I usually Get into Seattle. I know, don’t tell anyone, but it’s unbelievable, like local beer, crab being pulled out of the harbor, whales passing by. 

Oh yeah.  

Really fabulous.  

Yeah, we’re pretty blessed up here. Yeah, to be honest. So.  

I like how she’s claiming it for herself. 

It’s not mine. I make no claim to being Mother Nature.

Right.  

That’s all her fault. After that, OK. Pilot.

Well, we. We live in swamps where we are. Yes, that’s what’s down here. And we are 40 feet above sea level, and it’s swampy, humid, buggy, and all that. All that, and it takes some getting used to. But now when I go to Vegas or Phoenix, or, you know, any desert climate, It’s like I just get it. 

Let’s try.  

Dry it out like beef jerky immediately, like a perm. Like, yeah, give me humility. 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, so now we have to tackle the whole piloting thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, piloting is good. 

That’s all we have? Piloting is good. 

Well, a pilot like Guy that does CrossFit and a vegan going to borrow: which one tells you about their thing first? 

So yes.  

That’s the question. 

Right. I’m obviously not vegan or CrossFit, so you’re correct, but that’s always the case. 

So, when the pandemic hit, like when it became apparent to me that we weren’t leaving the house, I said to myself, “There are two things I’ve always wanted to do.” One was to write a book, and the other was to become a pilot. 

I travel a lot for business, so I said, “Well.” I don’t like pandemic-style travel where you wrap yourself up and don’t breathe on anyone, so I might do the pilot thing, but I felt like the moral imperative was to give back before claiming something. So, I said OK, I’ll write the book first, and then I’ll finish. Then you’ll know, and then I’ll immediately go right into becoming a pilot. 

Well, I didn’t know how long that would take, so I wrote the book first; that took a good bit of time, and it really was akin to sort of intellectually giving birth to something. And just because you know something doesn’t mean you can write it, and that was really a challenge. So the book came out, and it continues to amaze me that it does so well. 

But then I immediately shifted into, “OK, let’s do this piloting thing.” And so, we were flying at the height of the pandemic, as was everybody else, so the prices were up and you couldn’t get a flight. And your instructor was so booked and all of that sort of thing, but…

So, I’d go to Atlanta three days a week for months and just hammer it out. So, I began at the end of June 2021 and continued until March 2022. I got my license, bought my plane immediately after that, and have been flying around. I think it’s wonderful, and I’m still training and doing other licensing. 

You and Ollie need to talk because I live…

 So, I have a hanger. I have a hanger. I don’t have a plane, but we live on a private island.  And it’s a private airfield that gets used for emergencies for everyone in our neighborhood used to be pilots, and they wanted to create a community where they could, you know… could be together. 

They’ve all kind of gotten older. Several of these retired from flying for obvious health reasons. We have one that still maintains his pilot’s license. He’s also an instructor. And my boyfriend wants to make good use of the hanger.  Hey, if you ever feel like it. You can land and you can come over. Could you know? Taxi over to the hangar and put your airplane up.

But It’s funny you bring this up now because he’s been talking about getting an airplane. So I have a feeling when we go to see my brother in Georgia and we meet. I think I might need to get to know your wife really well so that we can exit when you guys start talking about planes. I have a feeling it’s true. 

It’s going to go well; we’ll just go up and fly. Yeah, we’ll just go up and fly. So my high school girlfriend’s dad was a pilot, and while we were dating, they built a house and moved into a flying community outside of Atlanta as well. So, I’m aware that those things exist and such. You know, when I went to law school, I couldn’t stand law students. I do not like it. Being in conversation with a lot of pilots 

In any case, these are the qualities that distinguish you as a pilot. 

Oh really?  

Do not try to make yourself a good conversationalist. Because we can only talk, you can only talk about that stuff. Yeah, so. But I didn’t get into it because I wanted to. Have fun with it or find a new hobby. I got into it because I wanted to go from point A You get to point B faster and better. But now I just need to get up sometimes and clear my head, you know, and it’s really a wonder. 

Oh, that’s incredible. 

However, it is a very expensive way to do so. Yeah, it’s really good. 

What was the most difficult aspect of flight school for you? When I was in flight school for the Navy, the most difficult aspect was the instrument sims. Those things kicked my *** 

So, two things: I pilot an advanced machine. That doesn’t even have a compass in it. Fully 60% of the testing that the FAA requires is done on stuff that I don’t know, have never looked at, or have ever had. It’s really antiquated, and they should get a lot better at that. So that was one thing that was really hard. And then I was terrible at landings. It took me a long time to figure out landings.

And that’s an important part of the journey. That’s probably the most important. Yeah, yeah.  

If you ever want to get to your destination, landings are important. 

where you’re going to land regardless? 

Yes, exactly.  

You will land; whether or not you will survive is a different story. I just remember doing that solo. 

This is totally the case. 

When I did my solo flights, I was fortunate to know that they were scheduled between 10 and 13 hours. Solo, I didn’t feel like I knew anything. Right. And then you’re on the plane by yourself, talking to guys on the ground. And you’re going to do this checklist stuff. And I was terrified. And I just kept adding, like, ******* to every checklist item; like ****** ******* calling on the radio. And arranging the plants as desired. The entire situation, the entire time, terrified me. 

I’m not a very good pilot from that standpoint, from the visual standpoint, and so forth. And the intuitive nature both inside and outside. Something sort of I’m not trying to sound arrogant, I guess I should say, but I don’t do a lot of things that I can’t get a grasp on really quickly and do well at, but I didn’t grasp it and do well at it right off the bat. 

I really had to work at being able to do the job with a very different skill set. I’ve learned a ton. I have this whole presentation that I want to do on, like, what? What pilots now know about business is so much better because there are so many good cross-over analogies and things like that. But yeah, it’s just was not something that came naturally to me.

But my instructors were really good. kind, but she also had the integrity to tell me; You have to work harder at this than other people do. 

Don’t give up; however, you will. 

It made a lot of sense to me. It didn’t. It wasn’t how I wanted it to be. Be. That’s right. Yeah, that’s. Right. And now I’m functionally competent, but I’m still not great, you know? And so, I’m studying instrument certification now. And that’s the thing. And I’m a much better instrument pilot than I am, sort of visual pilot who can see. 

That’s good that you have that skill to fall back on as we’re getting ready to wrap things up here. I’ve got two kinds of final questions for you. 

One is, Where is the one place you want people to get a hold of you at? Then there’s the second one, if there are people who are struggling and trying whatever they can.to do right now. What kind of advice would you have for them? 

Yeah, you can find me a couple of places. My personal website is trey-taylor.com, but I’m on Link to Universe. My consulting side is Trinity-Blue.com. I think we have a new website up for investment opportunities for the Family Office, and I answer emails as well. So, trey@trinityblue.com, you know that I enjoy weighing in, assisting people, advising, and the like, whether or not it leads to a consulting engagement. 

Sometimes it’s just a question or two that people need. That’s just a different point of view. I don’t know that. I have blanket advice for somebody, but I’ll tell you what I did last year that changed a lot of stuff in my life. And I had heard this for years. I think I heard it from Tim Ferriss. I had heard it from other sources. And then I put my own sort of spin on it.

Everything in life, you know, you get to the point that everything in life needs to be either a hell yes or a hell no. And I have a pad on my desk, and people are sort of pitching me opportunities or saying, “Let’s do this or that.” Because my time is so limited, that’s the standard I’m setting for myself right now. As rationed as it is, if I’m going to donate any of it to something else, I need to make sure that it’s a hell yes. Or hell no. 

And then, my very good friend and neighbor who is a horse guy and very country in his ways said everything is a “yee, haw, or hell,” and I think he’s completely right about that. So I’ve been doing that for over a year now, and it’s improved the quality of my decisions and how I spend my time. Has been greatly improved as a result, so I don’t know if the listeners have heard it 100 times, but it will eventually click to them when they want to value their time properly, and they will be very excited. By what you do throughout the day, if everything you do is hell yes, 

That’s great advice and thank you so much for sharing those links.

From Carol and myself, thank you so much for being our guest today. We were happy that we could get you on and provide you with a little bit of distraction or a break from all the heavy lifting you’re doing for the family night right now. It was really great to get to speak with you. 

Well, this might be the funniest podcast conversation I’ve ever had, so I really appreciate you guys pulling me out of the depths right now and just giving me a little bit of a free-form, good conversation, and it was really fascinating to meet you and get to know you guys as well. 

Yeah, that’s the whole goal of this thing, is that we really do care about you. And other such things. Interests you.

You’re not the only guest to say that this is the best time they’ve had on the podcast. It’s not like we’re diving into some business concept and trying to figure out how we can get them to squeeze the most value out of you because we genuinely care about our guests. And we want you to be able to share the real you with the audience, and that’s what really matters.

Well, that shows, and I feel very sort of validated on that. So, I appreciate you both for that.