Undiagnosed Asperger Syndrome, Bullies, and Finding Peace with Jessica Meuse

Hey, welcome to the show. You’re back here with your host, Travis Johnson, and my fantastic on the inside and mostly on the outside, Carroll. Today we have a special guest, Jessica Muse. She is from Slapout, Alabama, which is a great name for a city. I got to tell you, she’s been on the Vans Warped Tour or the voice of American Idol. She just does country music and a whole bunch of other ****. Jessica, how are you doing today?

I’m doing well. I’m a little sleepy. I’m catching up now, but yeah. I’m well overall, I’m here, so

That’s good, and we’re very happy to have you here on the show. Jessica was introduced to us by Doctor Julie Ducharme, who is an amazing woman. This leads to amazing stuff you can check out. Our interview with Julie was done a couple of months ago, but we’re just really excited to have you here and I got to know, I want to know what makes you a Titan.

Oh crap. I mean, I went from being an absolute nobody to working my *** off and everything that you see, for instance, when you Google me. I mean, I went out and got it. So, I like to think that I’m kind of the underdog that shows all the other people who might be sailing on the sea that I’ve already been on. Hopefully, I can give them some hope and let them realize that if you set your mind to something and you want it, you just go get it and you can.

That is a fantastic answer, and it’s the same story with me and Carol, pursuing something, it’s the same story. It’s up to you. You’ve got to do it. Get after it, go get it every day, and make that dream a reality for yourself.

That’s for sure because I think a lot of it. People talk about, well, Well, I could do this, or I could do that. It’s like “no ******* go do it. Something about it?

Yeah, there are a lot of people who have no follow-through, but they can talk about it all day and I see that a lot. I’ve learned how to kind of discern the doers from the don’t people, and I like to make sure that I just surround myself with people who are inspiring and go out and get what they want in life. Because you are your friend. I’ve learned that, especially in the past couple of years.

Yeah, it’s okay. Who do you surround yourself with for sure? Because they can. Contribute to your success or failure.

Yeah, that’s not any ****. I remember I was saying to the people that you know would talk **** about the boss and their whole goal was to go to the bar. After work and all that ****, I found myself talking **** about the boss and going off the bar over work. And then I wondered why I didn’t have any money. In a way, I wasn’t being considered for promotion. “I wonder if it could be the things,” I thought. I’m doing it because of the people I’m hanging around with.

But once you see the turn and you kind of stop and process it for yourself, and you’re outside of yourself and you get over your ego, I feel like it releases you to pretty much do whatever you want, and you can. And once you see the cause and effect, and you can see it further out, I think that helps a lot too.

What was the trigger for you that helped you get over your ego?

Well, I think a big thing for me was that it kind of started in middle and high school. I moved around a lot. I was, for lack of a better word, a loser. I had an eating disorder because I was made fun of for being called fat. I was awkward for a long time. I had a lot of acne, and I was always a weird kid, which now I found out is because I have Asperger syndrome. I think I think pretty differently than most people. And I’m like a hyper-creative person, so I just like to make stuff I like to play video games. I drew monsters that I made up in my head. I was always in creative writing, and to the majority, which is normal people, that was weird, and that was something they didn’t understand. 

And in hindsight, I realized that that’s what it was. But when you’re in it, it is. And I’ve felt like an alien for pretty much most of my life, but I’ve also learned… I’m going to prove all you ******* wrong. So, I do. 

I fell into the only consistent thing that I had even in all my travels because I went to countless schools. I’ve lost track of going through my eating disorder, going through all the adversity that I faced in, you know, high school. I graduated early because I was not allowed to walk with my class. I never had a cap and didn’t walk with my class. I was removed from the honor court, but I turned all of that into motivation. 

And so that’s a perfect example of how it’s not what happens to you, it’s how you choose to react to it. So, in this world, you have to decide. Well, am I going to let this get me down right now? And I always ask myself, is it going to matter in five minutes, five days, five weeks, five months, five years, most of the time? It doesn’t, so you pick your *** up. And then you gather your ***, set your small goals to achieve your big goals, and go get them. 

And so, I guess I got over myself. I was probably in middle school when all the bullying was at its height because I realized I didn’t fit in, and I was alone. I was forced to be alone. I was very … and have always been introspective. I asked questions and I didn’t have the, oh I’m ****. I’m too good and I’m smarter than everyone else. Because no. Every day I was told I was stupid. Every day I was told I was ugly. I had people telling me to kill myself, so I think I got over my ego pretty quickly.

Yeah, you have, to be able to create the things that you’ve created. They’re all three of them. Our stories line up in parallel. There are. There’s always that point. What was that point for you, Carol? When you were like, you know what, I’ve got to get over this ego. I take control of my s***. You knew it was for you at that point.

Yeah, my divorce.

Yeah, after like, how many years? 30 years? How long were you married to him?

Oh, I was married for 21 years. At that point in my life, which was half my life, So, uh, yeah, and there was like a, I felt like a 20-year cycle with where **** would go bad, and after the 2nd 20 years, which was during the divorce, I was like, “**** I went off this ride as this sucks, you know? 

And so, you know, I put things in motion, but I did it weirdly and I think the commonality is what I see when we speak to all these entrepreneurs is that everybody feels they felt weird, odd, they never fit in, you know, and it seems like through that they’ve worked it into their goals and into what motivates them, which is in being more and more we talk to these entrepreneurs. That is the commonality that they chose to use as a motivator. Instead of anything else, because you can, you can. I ended up choosing to go. Well, **** I’m on it. You know, I don’t deserve to live and be totally down. I can choose the other, which is a much better option, and do what we do, and we can rise above it. Well, looking li looks like a Phoenix man.

******** like the Phoenix man, exactly, right? I love to hear

That’s a wonderful quote.

******* as if you were a Phoenix, man

Yeah, with the comma and everything.

That’s going on a shirt. I’m writing that down right now.

I need to. Oh my God.

You know that shirt, and I don’t know if you’ve seen it, Jessica, it’s like, “So what is it? “Underestimate me, that’ll be fun.”

Oh yeah, what was it like? What was your experience getting on? You know, pursuing one of your passions, being creative and country, music, singing, and performing, how did that transition into getting on things like The Voice and American Idol? What was that journey for you?

Oh, the voice called me because I was going to college 18 hours a week. So, the maximum I was allowed to sign up for was going out to every open mic, and every opportunity that I had to play, mostly in the Birmingham area, but I played in bars. I played in shitholes and, like smoky little dives under overpasses, I’ve played every bar in the Southeast, but I did not sleep and look back. I don’t know how I did it because I’m now 31 and I’m tired all the time, but I’m still trucking, man. 

I was playing out as much as I could. I got a phone call while I was playing a show. I remember it was in Montgomery. My family and friends were there, so I had to call the guy back during my first break. I had never been to LA, I’d never been anywhere near it, and that was the first experience I ever had with something like that, and they flew me out, and I remember thinking, oh my gosh, I’m going to make it. This is it. This is my big break, and it should be like one of those things that Morgan Freeman is narrating, and he’s little done. She knows that it was not her day.

Dude, I got out of there. I was there for a month. I seriously thought because I was naive. I was young. I was a *******. I freaking thought, coming from Slapout, that that was my shot, and I was going to make it. I was going to be famous, so I was going to have everything I’d ever dreamed of having. And then there was the blind audition day.

I got all the way there. And no one turns around. And Christine Aguilera, a role model that I have looked up to forever. Since I was A little girl listening to her: she’s so talented and she’s so beautiful. She told me that I shrieked. And that killed me. And then Blake told me something was off. I don’t know what it was, but something was off, and then Adam Levine told me. Well, you have plenty of time to develop your talent. You’re young enough, you have plenty of time to develop your talent, and then he goes. How old are you? I was like, “Man, you should have ordered that the other way around, they asked me how old I was first. And then Celia just told me he was building his team and was running out of spots, and he was looking for something very specific. But he liked it when I did whatever I did in the song. And I remember my heart was broken. It felt like I was dying. I also have really bad anxiety, so I was terrified, I started crying, and they sent me to the psychologist for the show. He’s like, “Why are you crying? I was like, “Why do you think I’m crying? “

Did you not see that ***? They destroyed me. Of course, I’m crying.

I was 21. It’s like yay. Alcohol, yay Hollywood. Yay California

I’ve always dreamed of doing this and it’s like I’m living my dream, but then it just got ripped out from under me and I was too young and naive to understand anything else.

 was a painful awakening for me, and I went back home. I went right back to school. They never showed me on the show, and at the time, I was bummed about that because I wanted to see my audition and hear how I sounded and what they were talking about. because I didn’t get to see a replay or anything then. I went back to school. I was hustling. I went back out. I was performing every night. I did a couple of singing and singer-songwriter competitions in Birmingham. They would shut down a couple of the venues and it was just. It was fun.

I love playing music and I’m just getting back into it because I know I don’t have a quitting bone in my body; I just can’t. I don’t care if it crushes me. I don’t. I don’t care if it broke my heart the way it did, but I can’t quit, so I was working through school. And I’m performing. And then I played at this one gig where this guy had dated a girl. If you can keep up with that and she worked for American Idol, she was scouting and he was helping her find people, and he became my friend, and he put my name in the hat, and she called me and she said, do you want to audition in Atlanta? And I said no, not really, because I was like, “I’m not camping out at 2:00 in the morning. I was so exhausted that I could be denied and then go home, especially because I had gotten a spot to perform at Warped Tour the day before the audition, and she. No, I’m not. I’m not talking about that. What about 2:00 PM in the showcase group?

I said, “Oh. I could do that. I could do 2:00 PM because I didn’t have to do the cattle call, so I went in. And I got through, and I remember thinking, “I’m not going to.” I’m not going to count my chickens now. I’m just going to go with the process. And I kept getting through, and then I got through again, and then I ended up in Los Angeles, and I did the hell week thing, and I was also full-time in college at that time. I failed two or three classes, and I’m very academic. I ended college with a 4.0 in the semester and an overall 3.5 that I brought back up. Because of this one semester where my GPA was a one-point-***** 6. I remember I didn’t realize how damaging that was to the overall until I went back to college like two years ago during the pandemic and I was like, WHOO, that put a dent in it for me.

I did idol and I just set little goals for myself. And I got to #4, and I just remember being realistic with myself and telling myself things like, you know, if you go home this week, you beat out 74, 000 people. That’s a feat in itself, and I’m happy that I never compromised who I was. I never compromised my values. I had people trying to objectify me and make me wear certain things. I argue with people like I’m not wearing that they tried to mess with my head several times, but usually, clothes and they would be switching songs on me. I was learning three to four songs per week, and they were cuts of the songs, which is kind of more confusing than just learning the album cut of a song.

Then after I did all the idol stuff like I’d MasterChef, I did Blind Date, which is hilarious. My blind date looks like McLovin.

Ha ha.

Oh my God, it was great, but yeah, I don’t know how I got on MasterChef, but I got into like the top 43-ish or something. I’m a decent cook, but not with people who own restaurants surrounding me. But what else? I mean, yeah.

But the thing that I heard in there is, it sounds like you went to The Voice, and you felt like you had arrived, and that got shattered and you went to Idle, and you trusted the process and you went through the steps, and it was a completely different Jessica that went through those two processes.

It was. 

I remembered how badly it hurt. 

One thing I’ve learned is that whatever you plan, you should probably plan fairly loosely, and you can set goals and be realistic with yourself, but always anticipate change and never be afraid of change, because that’s something I did learn from the idol and voice thing. Even though it crushed me, not making it on The Voice was a blessing in disguise, because if I had been on that show, I would have been under a reality contract hold and I would never have been able to audition for Idol the next year, because it was too close to whatever the limit was in the dates and stuff. But I remember that because I had a lawyer look at the contracts for me and the voice wanted my entire be in my catalog and looking back. I’m like, “No, this is mine, I’m not. I’m going to sign that for you.”

That takes some audacity. Holy ****OK?

Well, you learn money.

Let me ask you a question. Have you always wanted to be a musician? Was this something that you had always wanted because you said you were creative when you were young? So, what did that include in that creativity, and what made you choose this route?

Well, as I said, I was always very artsy-fartsy. I drew monsters and made up my brain. I wrote stories. I always tried to write songs, and they would end up being long poems. I took a lot of literature and analytical classes in high school, but I also took some college courses. I took English and lit in high school, but I realized that I loved analyzing poetry a lot, and I could pull parts apart and reflect on them. You know, biblical references. My database in my brain is stupid because I read so much as a kid and because I didn’t have any ******* friends. Like I didn’t have it.

Well, your books were your friends back then, right?

And, as much as I adore fantasy, sci-fi, and stuff like that. And of course, now, I’m like, into self-help and all that. because I’m a psychology person and I like history. I like everything, but I was very fascinated by William Blake, the poet, and artist. His day. who apparently could talk to angels. He is cool. You should look him up when you get bored one day. 

He also had the songs of innocence and the songs of experience. And when you read the songs of innocence, it applies to things like the childishness and the purity and negativity of being a child and everything. Very positive, everything bright and beautiful, but then those songs. Variants are significantly more melancholy, more of a Debbie Downer, you might say, because they’re losing that childlike innocence. So, I was always fascinated by that kind of stuff, and this is like my teen years where I’m reading this very advanced mature material that requires a lot of thought. And I wrote papers on it. And then I also read comics because I love comic book art. I would draw Wolverine and stuff like that. And I would also love to have a dragon that draws dragons. I was just a freaking nerd. And people picked on me for that, and then I would go home, and I would play video games, and I would put him on the game shark so that I would be in God Mode and never die. And I was like, “It’s not. Cheating is a strategy”, so that’s how it is all the time. It’s a strategy. That’s how you get by. That’s how you get by in life.

Oh, we’re not laughing at your assessment. We’re laughing at it. The way you said it, yeah.

Oh no, you’re fine. I know that I’m a little quirky, but Uhm, yes.

Have you met Carol?

Not till today. 

I wrote poetry. I started playing the violin. I’m classically trained, so I learned how to read music. I was in the choir when I moved to Alabama, they didn’t have the funding for music programs like they did when I was in New England. I lived in Rhode Island, and this is. where I took all the orchestra and stuff, but I continued playing violin when I moved down here.

I remember I got into a symphony orchestra in Montgomery. And I worked my way from the back to the first year. I was second last year and worked my *** off when I got the call to be in the first chair and I burst into tears. Then I started telling my mom, like, hey, I want to play guitar because I want to figure out how to write songs and I had the music theory, and I could hear stuff without knowing the theory. But I had done the orchestra camps I had taken… I even took a few college courses in theory and music in general. But my mom stopped at Bailey’s Brothers in Montgomery, and we got my first guitar on the way back from Symphony practice one day, and I immediately started just playing.

I started learning all the chords through some of my favorite songs, and I just started memorizing them. I have always been musical too. But I just didn’t have a guitar to play along with, and I was saying I did karaoke for a long time, which was cheesy, but it was my starting point, and I sang in public at a Catholic school in Florida. And I’m not Catholic, so it was rough.

I get to take a holy water bath every week.

Well, I felt they didn’t want me there, because I wasn’t Catholic, but I had gotten pulled out of all the other schools because people would threaten me and push me around and start rumors, and it was pretty cruel. I mean, kids mean.

My parents, as a last resort, were to put me in this private Catholic school, and I’ll never forget it. We went to mass. And I didn’t. Understand the dogma of Catholicism versus all the other religions. And I was. I like, well, I want the grape juice too. And I want the little cracker thing, and they’re like, “Well, you’re not Catholic. You can’t have this. I was like, “What the hell, man? This isn’t okay, this is ******. I wanted the cracker in the grape juice and so everyone got it except me. Which further alienates me, to be honest with you, but I don’t know.

I feel like I’ve embraced it and my creativity and am learning how to focus on teaching myself new skills and honing the ones I already have as far as music and art. That just kind of became my safe place, I think, and it’s very therapeutic, so I would write these are long. I always liked songs that were more poetic than they were musical, and I was always frustrated because it wouldn’t click, and then one day I wrote a song, and I remember I had my Eureka moment, and I was like holy ****. I just wrote a song. a song that doesn’t. Suck, that’s not.

Hey Jessica, Are you a sight reader for music? Or do you do it by ear?

I can do both. When I did sight reading, that was more of a violin thing. So, if I saw it and someone said, “Sing,” I’d be like, “I don’t know. No, not a sight. Read it and know what the note is. I’m not Charlie Puth, but I would say I have relative pitch and I can remember songs and I can remember what key they’re in. But if I start trying to sing it from memory, I might be 1/2 step off, so I don’t have absolute pitch by any means. You can’t go in and say {sing} that’s an A I’m not like that.

You mentioned it in there. The self-proclaimed alien right self-identifies as an alien, and, interestingly, it’s not until we accept who we are with all of our weird ****. Do we finally start to excel?

Yes, I believe so. A lot of it. That came to fruition for me, and I realized that you know what? It’s OK to be as different as you are. The only reason you feel weird is that you know that the majority isn’t like you, and that’s OK. It doesn’t mean you’re weird; it just means you’re different and you’re in a certain place. 

There was something I saw the other day. Day, that’s what. You can go. Somewhere, water will be a dollar. Or you can go somewhere, and it’ll be $2.00, or you can go to the airport and it’s like $25. ******* Fiji as well as *******It’s not about the actual value of the object, it’s about where you’re at. So maybe if you’re feeling cheap and *****, you might be in the wrong place.

 And I also think that traveling and seeing different cultures and subcultures has helped me with understanding and being OK with my little eccentricities. So, I think that everyone needs to travel and get out, but that’s the other thing, like the reason I got bullied so heavily here maybe is that I moved around a whole lot, but none of these kids did. Like, these are kids who were born and raised, they live next to mom and dad now, they teach at the same school we grew up going to, and they’ve never left Alabama. And that’s OK, that’s

We can be friends forever, right? I mean, they have their cliques. They had the people they were comfortable with. They were never put in a situation where it was uncomfortable for them to have to make new friends.

They never have to get off the hamster wheel. They never had to get off. Now hamsters wonder. Do you guys see that? Look at that. She had never seen that before. I’m with you, I went to 12 rings of gold. I moved 36 times before graduating high school.  Weirdo right here

Well, then you get it. Because that’s how you meet a ton of people in a very critical developmental stage of your life, yeah.

A lot of ********.

A lot of ********, yeah. So, I think that’s good because you figure it out. What do you not want to be?

Umm, absolutely.

like the kids made me feel growing up. I would never want to make someone feel that way. So, I’m like, you know what? I don’t want to be anything like that. You because you ******* suck.

If anything, I would think too because my dad was an engineer, and he would have. We had contracts, so we would move as well. At the end of the day, you had to get used to and adapt to being in different places. Plus, we come from different cultures. My family. I was the first generation, so everybody in my family spoke a different language. You don’t think that people make fun of me? I came to school. with different foods. They made fun of me like I was. Not a normal So, you know, dealing with those issues. I believe it is expanding. So, you get a thick skin. You kind of learn to be a duck. Allow it to roll off your back like ****.

Yeah, chuck it in the **** bucket like that.

Who said that five times fast?

I will. I definitely will. So, Julie, I messaged Julie saying you were coming on today and I was happy, and she told him he should make an effort to get her to sing. I’m like, I can’t put an artist. On a spot Like that, who hasn’t had time to warm up isn’t in a sound booth, and I was. I definitely can’t do that. I’m like, I’m an *******, but I can’t do that. That’s just going too far.

You should. I mean, like my guitar, so I flew back, so it’s still probably way out of tune from the airplane, but it’s upstairs, I mean. I’ve got the sniffles, but I mean, you can pause the recording, right?

Then we’re going to watch you walk upstairs and come back downstairs. What was that? We’re not going to have you do that. What was your favorite karaoke song while you were getting started?

Oh Dang.

because mine is,  baby got back? But I did that. When Carol was there in Texas,

No, I sang a lot of 90s country growing up because that’s what I was just born and raised on in rock ‘n’roll. So, it’s like there is no Arizona by Jamie O’Neal. Faithful stuff. What did she do? She was like, “Take another piece of my heart,” the Janis Joplin song, that kind of button. And then as I got a little older before I learned the guitar and could accompany myself, I would sing, and I still do. If I go to a karaoke bar and I’m very good with friends, I’ll sing with Carrie Underwood. All the angsty, I’m going to **** ** your car stuff.

That was my daughter’s favorite song when she was like two or three. Sure, belt it out. All of that **** is hilarious. He’s like she’s like 3, all squeaking she’s. Like my dad, my keys. Yeah, the whole area is Yeah, she rocked it though.

Yeah, I’m like “before he cheats”. That was my jam, but I also loved Britney Spears, Toxic and Shakira whenever and wherever. I loved that I had that whole service album, and I loved it every day.

Yeah, I’m a huge fan of both of those gals. Did you see, oh? My God, what is that group? What does that mean in that group? They say they do metal. They take pop songs and turn them into metal songs. Have you heard this?

Is it our last night?

No, it’s killing me right now, but they do like a “baby one more time, but they’re dressed up like Deadpool and Wolverine and it’s all metal. Yes, yes. Oh my God, Carol. Ask her some questions. I’ve got to Google it. I got to go. Oh, I’ve got to know this answer.

My God, he’s in a certain circle. Hey, so I wanted to. I want to talk to you about a man and you. kind of breezed by. It has Asperger’s syndrome. So, my son was diagnosed with high-functioning Asperger’s, and I remember him being very introverted. But he would do things like complex 3D puzzles, So I put them in part-time daycare because I needed a break, you know? My husband, at the time, traveled almost 90% of the time. of the year. 

So, as he got to, I think he was five or six years old, maybe four. We put him in part-time, right? He was just really awkward with people, and he couldn’t talk to them, and he would lash out instead of using his words to communicate. He’d be putting together these intricate 3D puzzles, and the school said he could take them home. He’s the only one that can figure them out.

Right? 

So, he was so intellectual in that way, just in a social aspect. He was incapable of just communication. He got along with people but didn’t understand why people reacted differently to him because he just wasn’t in. 

He was extremely sensitive? So, like if there was something scratchy, you couldn’t have it as it would bother him, and he was very highly emotional. So, he would start crying, and this is the most hysterical part. So, when you put them in a part-time daycare, they have a little cubby. That you could. Bring clothes. For them to put stuff in, you know, like extra clothes. Well, I would get phone calls like “Hey, you need to bring me more shirts” and I’m like “What’s he doing to his shirts?” and he’s like, “Well when he cries, he gets the shirt wet and then he wants to take it off. Because it was wet, he needed to have a dry shirt. And so, I’m like “*** man, I like bringing three, four, or five shirts. You know, for them to do this eventually, one of the girls there, like a teacher aide, figures it out. It only bothers him when he sees it right. So, every time he would cry, she would rotate his shirt. He would not see it. So, it wouldn’t bother him, right? I thought it was hilarious and brilliant at the same time. I think it’s kind of indicative of kids that have Asperger’s. He’s got these little idiosyncrasies that you know, you’ve just got to kind of figure out so you can work around them.

Now he’s like an adult. Then he’s much more, I think. adaptable to all situations. It’s now, but I think maturity does something. For that, right?

Yeah, so as you get older, and this is actually how I became diagnosed. My degree is in psychology. So, I started studying autism specifically in one of my classes for behavioral analysis, and I started noticing I was. I had impostor syndrome. I was like, I think that sounds like me, but as you said, when he was younger, he had these things, and I’ve realized in hindsight that I did those things too. But as an autistic person, you learn how to do what’s called “masking”, and so that can be a social skill. It will test your skills overall but also include your social interactions with people. So, you learn and, as you said, he’s getting better. He’s more adaptive. It’s probably literally because he knows how to make himself appear more normal in public. And that is incredibly tiring

That’s exactly why I went to a psychologist. I’m looking at going to graduate school, and I told her I needed accommodation because it sounded ****** me off. I mean, if someone is taping and stuff and I’m non-confrontational, I’ll stare at your hand. And I’ll hope that you take a look at me and get me. Please refrain from doing so. But I scored very high on masking, and autistic women score higher on masking than normal men, normal women, and autistic men, so yeah, women overcompensate incredibly highly. I’m not sure if that also includes, like, culture, because I’m sure it’s probably a different range in different countries for different reasons because of, like, social roles and expectations and bias and whatever.

But yeah, it sounds like he learned how to mask. How do you disguise yourself and function normally? I’ll play my shows and I’ll talk to people, and like, eye contact is weird as **** for me. I’m like, why do we do that? People shake hands, I’m like…. The best thing you could ever do is shake someone’s hand. And then I made myself at least use hand sanitizer-like stuff that freaks me out. I don’t like people hugging me and touching me, but I’ve had to do the little one-arm hug, and, yeah, I realized I was pretending to be normal. I lived pretty much all my life.

I looked back. When I was talking to my psychologist, I mentioned that I used to sing Christmas songs out loud on the bus. When I was a little kid, people would say that girls were weird or why are you doing that or stop, and I would be criticized for it. I was like, “What’s wrong with that? And I look back and I see all these behaviors and things that I did that I thought, “You know what’s wrong with that, who cares?” But it’s not socially, I guess, acceptable. I learned how to pretend, and pretty much every time I go out, I’m pretending to be as normal as I can be, and then when I get home it sounds like I did this all.  That was also me. I had an imaginary friend. I remember my imaginary friend, and I read all the time. I challenged myself. 

Reading was a game for me because they did the AR tests and stuff. So, I just tried to be better than everyone else because I thought it was funny. And then I would make little models. It was an anime show called Zoids, and I would make little models, some of which were robotic, and, when I lived in Rhode Island, I joined a robotics club. We built robots out of Legos and could program them with the thing on the computer and tell them what to do, and that was so much fun for me. As a result, I believe that such activities helped a lot, even to this day. I enjoy being alone. I look forward to my alone time and it’s not that I don’t like people, it’s. Just that, like people, makes me tired.

Yeah, yeah, they drain you, right? I enjoy being alone. I love being able to think and be in my space and be creative. 

And you know, my boyfriend is Canadian, and we were just talking about this on the other show, so we don’t spend much time together. And people always ask me, you know, a long way away. How does a relationship work? And I said it works remarkably well. He has his life. I have my life. We’re extremely busy. I run multiple companies. He runs companies as well, so when we do get together, we try to make that time quality time.

And I got used to being alone. I mean, I was raising two kids when my, you know, ex-husband, was traveling all the time. So, I got used to being alone. I like being alone. I like myself. You know, most people I can’t stand. 

Haha, I feel that.

The problem with you is that you do get away from me. It’s not that you do bad things. It’s not that you’re bad. People get the ****.

Yeah, come on, Travis 

Not you two. I’m talking about our fans or somebody I don’t know. Let’s see. I’m the opposite. I can have some alone time, and that’s fine. I need a little bit of time, but like they like this right now, we’re engaging. and doing it. That’s through the roof. This is great. For me, yeah.

He’s a people person for sure.

You should see it. me in public. Hold onto your butts like it’s nuts. Yeah, so if you need a hype man, like on your travels and you want someone to go like me I can be that person for you in the crowd.

So, you’re an extrovert. Yeah, see, I’m super introverted. It’s very hard for me to be like, “Hey guys, what’s up?”

You know, all the wealthiest people are extremely introverted.

How can you be an introvert if you perform?

Well, it’s different.

Is it now?

Yep, it’s different. Performing is my happy place, and it’s also different in that I can be on stage, and I can act like an *******. I can kind of say whatever I want. I can do whatever I want, and I can be me and a person. I like it because it’s my brand. It’s who I am. It’s not like I’m just going around, and you know I can. I can come off as an ******* because I’m a little bit abrasive and whatever. It’s just me. And, I have to be mindful of that. 

I also don’t do so. I’ll talk, and I don’t have to do any of that when I’m onstage. Can I just sing my song? My song, or lately I’ve just been playing music. I don’t even talk that much anymore. I’m just like, this is what I’m good at and this is what I like, and I’m just going to sing and do this. is my happy place. That’s it. Different. Trying to impress anybody Honestly, I’m at a point in my life where I’m an example, suppose you don’t like it? I don’t care. You can leave and go somewhere else.

If only you had had the option to get the hell out of here, that’d be great, yeah. No, I appreciate your willingness to share, to be vulnerable and open, and that is really what this is all about. So many people see the persona of you out there on social media or anyone else, and they’re like, “Oh, they’re just lucky. Or how do they figure that out? Or whatever? 

Like, there’s no real back story in most interviews they end up doing, they don’t care about you. They say, “What are you doing? What’s your big thing? What have you done for me lately? Maybe it’s a human-interest thing, and then they just kind of move on. It’s like, what can you do for me, it’s just too much.

What should I do? I can Google something for you. What metal band is it? It’s heavy metal heroes that do the covers for pop music, so we get American Woman. It’s going to be maybe one more time. I ******* i love all of them. That’s great, yeah?

OK, I’m going to check it out. I love heavy metal and I love rock ‘n roll too.

And you love the Marvels because they’re dressed up as Spiderman. And well, I think there’s a Batman too. Deadpool Wolverine. It’s a lot of flack.

So… yeah. I have a Moon Knight comic book. Let’s see.

Yeah, he finally got his little series called “Moon Knight.” Yeah

I want season 2 so badly.

Are they going to do it? Have they decided?

I hope so because they are taxi drivers, in the end, that’s all I’m saying. Oh my gosh, I need more.

So, what kind of music do you usually sing? Is it mostly a country? Or rock ‘n’roll.

So, I did the country thing for a while. And that was where I was in my life. My last album was a couple of years ago which was in the country. It was produced in that way. And then I ended up parting ways with that manager, and he has stolen my copyright for all of my songs, and I’m in the process of fighting for my copyright for my songs that I sat on my floor in my apartment in Houston, TX. while I had a real job for a year, and he will not give them back. He is an ******* and dumb.

What is his address? No reason.

He lives in California.

Oh, I’m flying out there this weekend.

Yeah, yes.

 Oh, actually.

Yes, for real, he’s flying out. This weekend he’s going to be at a

Yeah, I’m going to be at Julie’s house. Doing Julie’s things

Why do I hear so many horror stories about this in the music industry are these ******* *.

There are tons of them.

The two words are “instant gratification,” So instead of working with an artist and having a nurturing relationship, a working relationship where you genuinely have that person’s best interests at heart. You want them to grow as an artist and as a person. You want both of you to become better in the long run. Instead of doing that and then making more money over a longer period, they will. They will stab you in the ******* back the first chance they get for 10 bucks.

That is exactly what happened. I’ve never been paid anything for anything. He left me in a very difficult place financially because he bypassed paying me. So, it’s just been a shitstorm, a dumpster fire.

That’s ******* horrible and the empathy in me goes out to you and the entrepreneur in me is wondering how we can create that agency. That operates the way it should operate.

There’s always going to be ********, so I think it’s just like something I had to learn the hardest way possible. So, I did. And like I said, I’m still trying to get my songs back. It used to bother me, but now I’m just… I don’t know if you ever watch Vikings, but when Floki was just floating on the sea and he had this urge to go find a new place, he’s like, “I have no idea where I’m going. He said, “I have no idea what I’m doing, but the gods are going to guide me.” And then he ended up in Iceland, and it was the best thing that ever happened to him.

So, I was like, you know, I am Floki on the sea. I have no idea what’s happening. I don’t, but sometimes you just have to let go of control because you don’t have it anyway. when we think we have control. We’re lying to ourselves. You don’t and also, like, don’t sweat the small stuff because it’s all small stuff. i like. I’m not worried about it. I’m just hustling. As I said, I’m applying to graduate school. And if I get in, I get in. If I don’t, I will apply again. I don’t care. I’m not going away, and I’m always going to play music. I’m always going to do what I love, and that’s it. I feel a lot better just having let go of all that stuff, honestly.

Sometimes you just need to surrender and know that the universe has your back. Of those, I always say to people that it’s like God’s rejection is your protection. Sometimes you know you’re being rejected from something because there is something else coming in your direction. It could be yours. It could be your goal. It could be your dream. It could be whatever it is, right? And you wouldn’t have had the time or the energy to devote to it if you were still back here and holding on. So let it go. I can let it go. And go with love.

Adversity equals growth, and people are afraid of failure and change, so that’s why they never leave when they stay exactly where they are because you have to fail to move forward, and you have to fail to move up. You have to buss your ***. It has to suck sometimes. And it was just like the voice that I got kicked off, and it ripped my heart. It eviscerated me. It did. It sucked. I had no idea that I was about to have an idol, and that changed my life. That was amazing. I had so much fun. I had. Such a good time.

Yeah, well, one thing people need to learn is that failure and change are inevitable. You cannot get away from it, so just lean into it.

What? What advice do you have to support and assist aspiring artists? You know, Keep the right mindset, and learn how to avoid getting screwed over by everyone in the industry. What advice do you have? You have people struggling with the mindset and then if people are getting into the industry.

Read your contracts. Get a lawyer. It’s the most expensive best friend you’ll ever have. But they’re worth every penny. 

Remember why you started. Especially if you start with pretty much nothing and you’re just hustling. And like I promised, it’s not the fame you want. That’s not true. I think it’s just really important too. Remember why you do what you do and why you play music. 

I’m reminded all the time that I do it because I meet amazing people who have changed their lives, and it makes me so glad I didn’t quit. When everything is sucked up, there are going to be a lot of people who tell you what they think you should be, how you should be, what you should look like, and what you should wear. 

And there will always be haters who say things like, “I had someone ***** about my fingernail polish because I play guitar, so it shredded it off on one hand,” and “she’s so trashy,” to which I replied, “**** you.” First of all, and not in a good way. It’s always on the Internet too, so you’re either going to become what other people want you to be and lose yourself in the process or wonder why you feel so empty. Or you’re going to stay true to yourself and do what? You love me. 

The reason why you love it is that you’ll be a lot happier. You’ll be a lot more fulfilled because I know a lot of people. People who have a lot of money and they’re empty, they’re unhappy, and they know why. I’d rather have $3 and know who I am and do what I love. Then you would have $3 billion and not have any of those other things.

Yeah, well they went and conformed to what other people thought they should be, so they are lost. They don’t even know who they are at that point. That’s why they feel so empty. You know, if you remain authentic and genuine to yourself, you’ll be happy. It doesn’t matter. Whether you have one dollar or a million dollars, you’ll be happy.

Yeah, I see this all the time. I just realized this is the first time we’ve spoken, Jessica. I was retired. from the Navy. As a naval officer and so many of my colleagues, my predecessors, when they retired, had onboard the military as their identity.

Luckily, I was a weirdo in the military, so I never really identified with those people, so I don’t. Sorry about that. But you know, going through that transition and going through that big change and having that piece of your identity taken away in whatever capacity, if you don’t know who you are, you’re going to get crushed. You’re going to get crushed.

If you know what you are like, we just talked to Joel Cleland. He knew who he was. He lost him. He’s no longer the CEO of Centric because he knows who he is. You knew it wasn’t what it was. It had an effect, but it wasn’t the same. It wasn’t as devastating as it could have been. It wasn’t like siblings. The CEO was his identity. He knew who he was. He knew what he stood for. And when you have that coming from inside of you, then the external things that happen are just news headlines and they may or may not mean anything.

Well, it is. It boils down to self-worth. 

Yep, is this saying how can you love someone else if you don’t love yourself at all? How can you make someone else happy who isn’t your job? – But that’s a different subject – If you’re not happy with yourself, then it all starts with you and getting over your ego. And I think a lot of people do. That’s probably it. The hardest part is the ego.

Yeah, no, very true now, uh. I have no choice; I have to ask about a little-known fact about you.

I mean, other than the one she already told us.

You know, we all have things that people don’t necessarily know about us. But when they hear it, they’re like *****. I totally

I’m trying to think that I know that when I talk, I tend to talk a lot, so there’s like so much information there.

I did not expect that. Do you know what I mean?

That’s great for podcasting. Let me tell you, this is wonderful.

Well, everyone knows I believe in aliens. That’s not a little-known fact. I think things like ghosts and stuff like that are real. And I’m fascinated by, you know what? What else is there? And there’s like this cool thing called thin places in the world where that veil between us and the other frequencies is very thin. And people see **** all the time, like if only I could like the spooky ghostly mysteries type of thing, though I would ******* do it.  

Bigfoot is out there. Yetis, I think, are just like ice bigfoots, like, “Oh, it’s so cool. I love it so much.

I love all that natural stuff. I think that’s my jam. i like. I don’t know if you found out from David Carter that I read cards. And that’s a happy place for me. I love reading cards. I read for people all the time that I care about

I feel like a dagger because you’ve never read cards to me, like oh I do it all the time to people I love. and care. About it, I’m just like, let’s just twist it in.

Edwards stated that he was available. You haven’t asked me if you asked me. I’d do it for you. I don’t openly invite myself. To do that because it’s a different energy.

Oh oh. 

You do not have to be receptive. It is for me to do it because I have to be able to connect to it. Your energy to do it.

The last time I was around anyone that had their cards read was during the week of… Oh, what the hell do you call it? What’s the big festival in New Orleans? Mardi Gras!

We’re down and we’re down, so the Navy won’t let you travel to a place like New Orleans during Mardi Gras, but they let you go before Mardi Gras, and then you know our airplanes broke. I had to stay. So, we’re out. We’re out in the tower, in the French Quarter. I’m with Marine. Who’s like 6-5? I completely trashed one of the other gals that are in the squadron where you’re trying to corral… because she’s smaller than I am. We were trying to corral this guy towards a cab, and we walked through one of the many graveyards in New Orleans, and he’s like, “Oh, they’re doing readings. 

Is this gal over here doing readings? She wasn’t a gal. It was like 3:30 in the morning. He sits down. He’s all interested. He’s like, “Yeah, tell me about this. So, you know, he’s like fully into it, so you know, he’s completely drunk, completely off his rocker drunk, and we got down to, well, you have two choices. You have two paths, I swear. He repeated that like 30 times. What memories do you have from the past? He’s a guy. Say, oh, I can’t see you have to be the one that sees the past and it just seems like an endless loop until I finally called a cab. I got him in there and I got him in the cab. Thank the person and then go back to the base and JRB New Orleans. That’s the only experience I’ve had with it. A tarot card reader?

Yeah, see, but it mines more energy. So, I have to tap into your energy, and you usually know if you’re going to be successful or not. Through struggles and all that. I’m kind of ******* crazy because I’ve done cold reads for people that have been like “Oh well, you know, you try one. I’m like, “Yeah, yeah,” and I’ll send it to him. Or like. Uh, give me a day. And then we’ll go up. And I mean, I’m like, what the ****? 

And I like it. It makes no sense to me because I don’t know anything about you. So, this has got to pertain to some situation you’re going through or will be going through, or you’re presently going through right now, past, present, or future. Right

It’s really interesting because I’ll do that and then I’ll do an overall, like a clarity card, over the three. And sometimes people will just come to me and say I have a problem or a situation. And I’ll find out what it’s like. The contributing factors are the overall situation that comes out of the read. 

So, there are all these different ways to do it; it just depends on who you are. I know, but you have to be receptive because if I can’t tap in, it’s not going to happen. To be accurate. never asked me. So, if you never asked me, I don’t offer it. Reggie the athlete from the very beginning, and David asked me to, so I said.

I love Reggie and David. They’re great. I just talked to you this weekend. He’s fantastic.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, both Reggie and David Carter played for the Cardinal’s nail plate for a couple of other teams, but they met on the Cardinals. And they were guests on our show, and they had a great time, and we hung out in Saint Louis, and that was a blast. And it happens every time. I had to hang out and talk to those guys. I just absolutely love it.

Yeah, yeah, he’s right, they’re good guys. X-NFL players If that’s what you mean, Jessica. Reggie Walker used to play with Was it the Cardinals?

Well, both Reggie and David Carter played for the Cardinal’s nail plate for a couple of other teams, but they met on the Cardinals. And they were guests on our show, and they had a great time, and we hung out in Saint Louis, and that was a blast. And oh, I get it every time we get to hang out and talk to those guys. I just absolutely love it.

So yeah, little-known facts about you, that’s why I was asking because you know, people don’t know. There are little quirky things that they don’t know about you. And then sometimes they’re like, oh, I could see that or something. time like ******* did. I did not see that one coming, you know?

Yeah, I mean, one time I went ghost hunting and I slept overnight in a haunted hospital.

****** hell. I could not do that.

What kind of hospital? Where was it at?

Whoo, South Pittsburgh hospital. I think that’s the name of it. It’s just over the Tennessee line, and I did a ghost hunt, and we had all the EMF chips. Oh, you.

I could not do that as I would be anxious-ridden all night at every *** **** sound because you do energy work. You can feel things and it’s not cool. It’s ******* not cool.

Though some people do feel the energy and they feel it, some people see it. I know this stuff.

Oh, I feel it.

Someone who feeds things.

It’s like fingers down a chalkboard. He’s a creepy ***********.

What did you see?

Yeah, they were one whole hallway dedicated to a psych ward and that had afterward, but there had been people who passed away, obviously, and on the opposite end. Which, for whatever ungodly reason, was like a nursery.

Oh yeah.

right? Why would they put that on the same floor? I don’t know, but there was a little boy. I want to say his name was Timmy or something like that, but he was playing outside, and he found what he thought were worms, and he showed his mom. They were baby copperheads. They bit him. And, like baby snakes, they don’t know the venom dosage at all.

Set this to stun Jimmy with the fangs. I don’t know what stun is. Here’s a full load, yeah?

And that’s like the rattlesnake babies do that too because they don’t know, and so he passed away in there while we were in the hallway. And I had my back against the wall. I don’t want to turn my back on anything. I’m just like, “Uh. And there was a shadow of a little boy next to me, and I looked down and I said, “Oh **** no ****. 

No, no *******I’m out.

Well, I kept my cool because I registered, and I was. Like, that’s the boy. And like I said, I don’t like the energy as much as you probably feel it, but I like it. I can tell if it’s bad. You can tell them.

Sorry about that, chills. I have the ******* chills.

It’s getting you right now, isn’t it?

We have bars open, but not wide open.

 But she closed all the doors in the hallway. Because she wanted us to leave her alone and she had a friend there. And this was a psych ward, so it wasn’t a draft. There are no windows in the psych ward. Because it’s a hazard, it was nothing like that. There was no AC on, there was no air running. No, there was no possible explanation for why all those doors were closed aside from that she closed them so. 

But then, oh no, this is not so. We went into the basement. There was an office off to the side where this guy used to be… I guess… I don’t know what his title was, but he ran the entire hospital, so we had all his office space, his files, his desk, and stuff in there. 

There was a little table in front of where maintenance used to hang out. We all sat there, so we all ate. And there was a man named James who used to run maintenance, and we had, uh, this EMF reader thing that when things, if something triggered the energy, it would light up. And based on how close it was, it would have a certain color and it would go crazy. 

So, the first thing I noticed was that I could tell there was someone in there, but I couldn’t. So, there you have it. Somebody walked by. And then the thing went crazy, and it was like red, which meant he basically touched it and then it faded to green. He walked off, and as he passed by, I smelled his body odor, and I was like, whoa. 

But he was chill, and he was nice, and you could tell that I didn’t feel threatened by him. And then one of the guys who was guiding the ghost thing was telling us about the man who used to run it, who had his office off to the side, and he was a very bad man. He was a very crooked man. He was into child *********** and that kind of stuff, and they didn’t find a lot of it until after he had passed away. He died in his office. I think they found pills and stuff. So, he might have Od’d, but don’t quote me on this. I don’t remember how. 

All of a sudden, as this guy is telling us the story, it sounded like a cinder block had fallen from the ceiling and it snatched a lamp and the light fixture was swinging back and forth and I sat there and I remember I was like, I got up and I spoke. “I’m going to go upstairs and go to bed now.” And so, I went, and I lay in my bed. I said a prayer. And I felt safe, and I felt protected. And I went to bed, and I was fine. But there are stories of people who taunted him. He damages stuff. He’s like a straight-up poltergeist, the angry one. He’s bad. I can’t believe I slept like a baby.

Well, you hear horror stories about

I don’t know if you ever saw ghost hunters or any of those guys, but there are horror stories of them attaching themselves to people and You know, I’m at home with you. And it’s like good Fuchs. Some people were the first to subject themselves to that **** and then bring back a ******* entity with them to deal with. Like, no thanks. I’m good.

I’ll just hang out over here.

Where’s that on the scale of single loneliness? As you know, I could go out for dinner. I just want to see people. Where can I get an entity to follow me home? That’s what I’m looking for.

Oh, crap, oh.

But I think, uh, I mean I believe there are all different kinds. I think that you know, the spirit lives on after we pass away, but I do think it’s something that we can’t fathom or understand. I don’t think when we pass away Our soul is a boy or a girl or anything. I think that’s irrelevant, but I think it’s an energy thing, and I think that certain things can attach in different ways and come off as like specters and replays and things like that that aren’t that person. They’re just like the energy that’s left behind. 

But then, like you were talking about, these are the things entities do, and those are the ones that would block them with Ouija boards, so they don’t close the session. Those aren’t people. Those are bad. Those are things you don’t **** with, and I actually knew a guy who had a session, didn’t close it, and a straight-up demon followed him around for 10 years. And it was just like a toxic voice was constantly chattering in his ear. He wasn’t mentally ill. Schizophrenia wasn’t a disembodied voice, nothing like that, it was very real for him. I’d lost touch with him since, but he was terrified.

Like a service public announcement, don’t **** with ****, you don’t understand.

all the time. I hope you never use a wigi board. Some people use it casually. They do all this. Crazy stuff with them.

Oh no, you are just tempting fate.

I will not.

When you do **** like that, it’s like, “Man, get away because that stuff is creepy.” You, you’ll become you. I see people completely alienate themselves and become recluses because of it. And it’s just like, “What did you do? You were fine with that ****. Before, you had a great life, and then you go do something stupid. And now it’s. It ruins your life.

I think there are better ways. To learn about what you’re curious about rather than sticking your hand in some hole that you don’t know what kind of hole it is in. 

You can say, “Stick your hand in any hole. 

Yeah, yeah.

Carol was all weirded out about the ghost stories. I’m like, “Stick my hand somewhere. I’m like, “No. No, no, no thank you. I saw a supernatural man pour a soul ring. I’m fine, but she likes to put her hands somewhere bearded. Nope, not into that stuff.

I mean, I’m fascinated by reading about Have you heard of Ed and Lorraine Warren? So, if you’ve ever seen The Conjuring, that’s where it’s based.

Oh yes, we saw them.

Based on a true story.

They showed actual previews of what they went through. Like in the old films 

She passed away. It was a couple of years ago now, but Ed passed away a while ago, but they have always been very interesting to me, and they were demonologists, and they had that whole museum. I think it was because their house was like a museum of all the cursed objects, and they understood how to kind of distance themselves from it. It’s known as worrying about it.

Have you ever watched so going down a weird vein here, but? I love it.

 But, uh, have you seen that?

It is so cool.

You’re welcome.

Show I. I think it’s under discovery. It’s called “evil things”. Oh my. God bless you, creepy. This is why I don’t go antique shopping.

My wife goes antique shopping every weekend.

Sorry, don’t tell me.

The wife is listening, but

Oh, I’m in town. I’m going to tell her I have to come in right now.

Okay, so the show is finally here. It’s about people going and buying things. These stores, you know. They sell them, they buy them. It could be antiques, it could be whatever, right? But they’re objects. And what astonishes me is that there are entities that can be attached. And then when you take those entities home or that object home, you’re bringing that entity into your home willingly. Right, and so then they wreak havoc in your home with individuals with the whole dynamic of the family. I mean, it’s ******* crazy, the **** that people buy unknowingly. And then brought It’s like demons and entities are invading the home. They poisoned the entire household. It’s ********.

Have you heard of Robert the Doll?

no

OK, you just made me think of So he used to belong to a boy. I think he named him after himself, and they lived in the artist’s house in Key West, FL. And he was given this doll by the original people who made the first teddy bear. It’s the same company. And he has, like, Mohair or whatever, and he’s filled with wood shavings or something. Don’t quote me. 

But the parents would catch the boy talking to the doll, and they thought he was just hanging out with his imaginary friend and stuff like that. Then things started moving, the doll was displaced, and they were like what the ****. It was creepy when stuff starts happening. Things would break, things would go missing, and the little boy would. There’s a quote that’s associated with him. It’s quoted that “Robert did it.” And they even use that in marketing now. So, Robert, it’s cool because as long as you’re not ****** to him, you’re fine. Nothing bad happens. So, I went to see the thing is, well, I prayed before I went in there. Don’t worry.

Now I see myself with holy water. “No ******* in 9 yards.”

In Holy water, Jessica sets up a blind date with a cursed object.

But it’s important to, I think, have respect for the things that you don’t understand, and you can be curious but not stick.

Yeah, yeah, what’s in there?

Your hand is in the hole, you know.

I don’t need to know.

I did my research before I went to see him and stuff, so I know you’re supposed to ask him if you’re going to take any pictures. So, I’m in there and all these people who have, like, there I don’t know what possesses people, pun intended, to two insults that they have heard that there’s a whole myth and folklore about. So, they go see the thing and do those things, and they’d like to insult Robert or say something like, “while I’m looking at all the apology letters that have been sent to the doll.” 

By the way, they’re all over. They have a whole run. He still receives letters, so I’m in there and I’m reading them. I did not take any pictures. I was like, “I’m not going to go. I’m not opening Pandora’s box today; I’m just going to look at it. 

So, this kid and his sister came in. And I’m just standing there pretending not to pay attention, and they’re like, hey, I am so sorry for what my dad said the last time we were here. We were just joking, and please forgive us. And they were just really sorry because the dad had said he was going to set the doll on fire and nothing would happen to him, and they were just sorry.

 First of all, I was like, “If you do that, you might just be an ******* in general.” Talk like that to anything or anyone. So, no, he’s been known to cause tremendous misfortune to anyone who’s very rude to him or takes a picture without asking. And it’s just really interesting. You may want to look it up.

Just like a Jeff Foxworthy knockoff.

If you travel across the country to cuss out a doll, you might be an *******.

Uh, yeah, well, and the people are visiting, but I just thought it was pretty gnarly that while I was in there, people were coming. I apologize to the doll. For terrible things like car accidents and stuff. They asked if you could please make the bad stuff stop happening. We’re very sorry. They apologized to the father. I would have said, “Dad, get your questions on applying.” First off,

Yeah, why is that?

We are doing this for you, and by the way, I doubt the doll would accept an apology from anybody else considering it was her dad who said it.

We might let the kids off the hook.

Yeah, well I don’t know, but I was curious because I was like, well, where is their dad? I was like, oh.

My culture believes in so many things. The other half, you know, the missionaries made it to Taiwan somehow and we got to be Presbyterians, so half my family are Buddhist and half are Presbyterians.

It’s a really interesting mix, right? We believe in the afterlife. We believe in being reincarnated. We believe a lot of things, but there is a lot to be said about fortune tellers and the supernatural, and what you believe in, and we have a ton of superstitions within our culture. I drive people insane. 

My boyfriend, I am sorry, but should I say anything to him, so he’ll say something? And I’m like, we can’t do that. Why can’t you do it? And then I have to explain to him why? Because there are so many different things that can bring bad luck. Good luck, and I am so overly superstitious because of my mother. right, and I abide by so many of the rules. 

My brother could give a ****, but me, I’m like no, no you know. And so, I get it. There are things that you can’t explain. But they’re such a part of your life that you don’t even question it, and I think just because you don’t understand it or you’ve never come across, you know, come across it before doesn’t mean that you should just sit there and thumb your nose at it. 

Ask questions, be curious, you know because you might learn something. My boyfriend’s learning that certain numbers are bad. The manner, uh, the direction of your bed matters. Where the head of the bed is in food matters. The direction of the front door matters. You know, where the window and the front door meet. And if there’s a window right when you open your front door, you know, there are ways of getting around it to keep the energy in the house, because if there’s a front door and then, let’s say, there’s a slider that goes straight out, in our culture, that’s like money in and money out, so you can never keep money within. And there’s, uh, bypassing that right, and so there’s. There are all kinds of things that we do to offset it. When we buy a home like that, there’s a certain number of steps that can’t be had in a home, and there are certain numbers that can. 

I mean, ******* hell, can you imagine being my real estate agent? I mean,

I already have. I’m not interested in that in the slightest. So, I don’t know. How is your real estate agent? Put up with that kind of ****. What are you looking for? Like A 32, you want to view it as I can’t have the front door directly to the back door and the wall. ‘Going it can’t match. It’s an energy thing and also it can’t. These are the four numbers.

We said yes to you, for nobody in real estate.

It was easy. Because they would just say things like you have the video. Nowadays, three 60s and. I would just go through the front door and go. Show me the front door. That’s what I did. would say, “Show me the house. Show me the front door and we’ll decide if we need to stop there. Or not. It was hysterical. There’s nothing wrong with this home, oh. Yes. There is

I think that’s interesting. I’d like to connect with you and talk about that stuff in your tarot cards and all that after.

Yes, Jessica, I would love to.

Yeah, I love that stuff and I like to learn. And honestly, I’m not very dogmatic and I don’t think that any one religion is just 100% true. Because things have trickled down so much historically, but I think if you look across them, there are these weird common themes and weird common people, and I’m kind of at a point. My life if I look at myself as a whole. All of it is right. It’s just being. without going down another rabbit hole.

No, no, no, for sure, but You gotta ask yourself, like my girlfriend’s, a diehard Christian, and she said to. I only believe in one true God, and I pray, but there can’t be one true God if there are so many people in the world that believe in so many different religions. So, every one of them says there’s only one true God, which I don’t understand. How can that be? So why can’t we be accepting of everybody? religion, with the understanding that just because you believe this is your one true God, doesn’t mean the other ones don’t exist.

Yeah, I agree. 

And if you look at even Gnosticism, which I believe is pre-Christianity unless I’m getting it confused. Christianity is pretty young. If you look at everything overall, it relates heavily to, I believe, Gnosticism, the one with the Demiurge, and that are basically like the bad guy, and there are all sorts of different things that Criss crosses into Christianity. But I have so many questions too.

 I think you should question everything, but like Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the bunch of white guys. Do you think that? That’s, well, that’s my perspective. I’m like, OK. I think there are great stories here, but there’s so much that they did not allow to be put into the Bible, like the Book of Enoch, which is interesting. It’s all about the angels. It’s all about the fall and all the angels that fell here showed women how to. Be lovely and seduce men, and be last, full of whatever. And it worked on the Angels. 

But they also showed us weapons and how to fight. And basically, they pulled up Prometheus and gave us the fire, and the thing that I have to say is that we have free will, so we use our decision-making skills, or lack thereof, too. We can create our wars with the tools that were given to us, but also, I do believe that everything that is happening is what is supposed to happen, good or bad. And I do also think there’s a collective consciousness that is rooted in energy. 

And that’s why, like the law of manifestation, I think that’s true. But it’s also, you know, **** does happen, and it’s not necessarily your specific energy, but there’s a giant cult that is being affected by the good and bad of the overall vibe of the world.

Yeah, but you know what?

We put it in. It’s got a lot of attractions, you know. What do you want? If you are, you put it out there and you go. This is what? This is what I want, and this is how I want to do it. This is what we want.to help. Society doesn’t tell me that the law of attraction isn’t going to bring it to you. You put it out. It’s like a ******* boomerang.

You just have to trust it, and you can’t timeline because your timeline might change. Not to be the

This girl just said my line like “no ****. I say that to everybody. I said it to Travis before: just because it’s not on your schedule doesn’t mean that it’s not going to happen. It’s just not on the timeline.

Yeah, and that’s why. That’s why I’m so low-key and I’m just floating. I’m just like I just try not to be an ****** person

You click with the person. Yeah, be a

I think that’s what it is.

Good people do good things and do them well. Things for the greater good so that we can all benefit, right?

Yep, that’s how I feel.

Oh my God, we’re so connected after this. **** yeah.

I would also.

Love to do so as we’re getting ready to wrap it up today. Jessica, thanks for being our guest. If so, where can they find you? They want to connect with you.

Well, all of mine. Stuff is at Jess Meuse, and my last name is Meuse, like me. Use this. You can use that now. Never forget that.

Yeah, I think.

I think pretty much everything except my Tik T.O.K is verified. But all I do on Tik T.O.K is I’ll do music here and there, but it’s mostly just shit posts and do comment replies because it’s funny. And then, uh, yeah, or you can Google me, and you’ll find it somewhere.

Well, if there’s one thing that I learned today, it’s don’t talk **** to demon dolls.

Don’t ever.

Don’t do it at first. I can’t afford to fly back down and apologize later, so that’s definitely out of my wheelhouse there.

Yeah, those Key West flights are no joke, that’s for sure. And I also would not want to be there right now

I’m not kidding.

Ian is currently pounding on their door. I have been down to Key West like five times, but I never got into the Demon Doll House. Probably because if it was suggested, I would be like, “I’m not putting my hand in that box.”

Well, just you know, be nice, just don’t be.

* **** it. 

It comes down to not being a * ***.

That’s hard for me sometimes.

a lot of things.

Because I’m like some, I’ll have it. Be like, really, that’s the decision we’re making today now. 

Thanks again, Jessica. Caroline’s own words: “This has been an absolute blast. Connect with Jess at Jess Muse. That’s me… Whatever, do something, and we’ll see you next time.